Let's Talk More

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
OldenBill
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Re: Let's Talk More

Postby OldenBill » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:39 pm

Postby Gareth » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:47 pm

If a conclusion through discussion is elusive, I find exploring by doing very helpful. Try to take part in a driving day sometime ...
How do you know your perception aligns with what the main players in the action are thinking and feeling?

Thanks for you reply Gareth. You've lost me here:

1 Are you saying I should join the local IAM Group?
2. How do I align my perception and who are the main players and what sort of action are you referring to?

I have not made myself clear either. I am NOT enquiring about allowing another vehicle to cross one's path. My point is regarding allowing a right signalling vehicle to move out from a stationary position on the nearside into forward traffic where a gap is left, but the gap leaver's eyes cannot be clearly seen and no indication of "giving way" is given by hand or headlights. I entirely understand who is at risk but absence of communication seems just as dangerous as misunderstood communication.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Let's Talk More

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:34 am

The trouble with the headlight flash by bikes, and this applies to cars now with all day lights, is that very often where a flash may be useful there is a sleeping policeman or other traffic calming, or a need to brake firmly. This can lead to what looks like a flash but isn't. I therefore try to avoid using one unless in a very obvious situation and I make it a positive long flash.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

Gareth
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Re: Let's Talk More

Postby Gareth » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:38 am

OldenBill wrote:Are you saying I should join the local IAM Group?

Not especially, was thinking more about the sort of informal days various of us participating in this forum arrange, where we meet up and go for short drives together, taking it in turns to drive our own car for perhaps an hour to an hour and a half.

OldenBill wrote:How do I align my perception and who are the main players and what sort of action are you referring to?

I was imagining you were discussing other road users, so thinking that while you might think there is some angst involved, the individuals might not be feeling that so much.

OldenBill wrote:My point is regarding allowing a right signalling vehicle to move out from a stationary position on the nearside into forward traffic where a gap is left, but the gap leaver's eyes cannot be clearly seen and no indication of "giving way" is given by hand or headlights.

I don't allow space unless I am already stopped or about to because of other traffic ahead. I tend to discount the preparedness if the driver of the parked vehicle hasn't already turned the wheels ready to move out, irrespective of an indicator. If indicating and wheels are turned, and if I hardly need to go out of my way to stop early such that there is space they can use, then I generally will.
Last edited by Gareth on Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

Gareth
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Re: Let's Talk More

Postby Gareth » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:40 am

The main time I do give a headlamp flash, and it will be a fairly long one, is on a multi-lane road after I've been passed by a heavy, and I'm letting them know that I'm willing to deal with the consequences if they move over into the lane I'm using.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

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jcochrane
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Re: Let's Talk More

Postby jcochrane » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:03 am

Goes to show how we use unofficial use of lights differently and how it can cause confusion. If I use lights to signal it is usually long for warning to draw attention to my presence or danger, for example at night approaching a hazard such as junction or bend. Occasionally if I want to say OK to another driver it will be a quick flash of the lights. So for an overtaking lorry I would use a 1.5 second flash as I want to say OK to pull over into my lane, you've cleared the front of my car and a long one of a few seconds if the lorry is pulling over too soon and I would also be on my brakes.

Edit....Meant to say .5 sec NOT 1.5
Last edited by jcochrane on Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Horse
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Re: Let's Talk More

Postby Horse » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:40 am

Gareth wrote: . . . the sort of informal days, where we meet up and go for short drives together, taking it in turns to drive our own car for perhaps an hour to an hour and a half, then say what with hindsight are dumb comments about John's acceleration and make try poor attempts at implementing cornering techniques.


FTFY (from my experiences with you and JohnC ;) )
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

OldenBill
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Re: Let's Talk More

Postby OldenBill » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:05 am

GTR1400MAN wrote:The trouble with the headlight flash by bikes, and this applies to cars now with all day lights, is that very often where a flash may be useful there is a sleeping policeman or other traffic calming, or a need to brake firmly. This can lead to what looks like a flash but isn't. I therefore try to avoid using one unless in a very obvious situation and I make it a positive long flash.


Very good point, Mike. I was fooled recently by a vehicle with blue flavoured mini lights which went over a change of level in the road and appeared to flash a main beam. The car was some 50 yards to the right of the exit I wished to leave to my left and I assumed he was signalling that he would take his foot of the accelerator for a couple of seconds. The perceived kind and considerate driver instantly turned into an abusive fist shaking monster, who clearly thought I was dissing his human rights. Long flash is good, specially when dipped headlights are on. Thanks.

OldenBill
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Re: Let's Talk More

Postby OldenBill » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:15 am

jcochrane wrote:Goes to show how we use unofficial use of lights differently and how it can cause confusion. If I use lights to signal it is usually long for warning to draw attention to my presence or danger, for example at night approaching a hazard such as junction or bend. Occasionally if I want to say OK to another driver it will be a quick flash of the lights. So for an overtaking lorry I would use a 1.5 second flash as I want to say OK to pull over into my lane, you've cleared the front of my car and a long one of a few seconds if the lorry is pulling over too soon and I would also be on my brakes.


Thanks for this J. Yes, I agree and I think a long flash to "draw attention" is the soundest. Also using main beam at night to warn of approach makes sense; this is similar to the former daytime horn warning approaching hazards which is rarely used today with modern volume of traffic, to avoid noise nuisance. I think the "Yorkie" fraternity have used the headlamp flash for many years and I notice their "thank you" is now given with a left and right indicator or brief hazard light sequence. Very good point.

OldenBill
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Re: Let's Talk More

Postby OldenBill » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:44 am

Gareth wrote:
OldenBill wrote:Are you saying I should join the local IAM Group?

Not especially, was thinking more about the sort of informal days various of us participating in this forum arrange, where we meet up and go for short drives together, taking it in turns to drive our own car for perhaps an hour to an hour and a half.

Observed driving by informed friends seems a very good idea. At my age, most of my contemporaries are flat-cap Micra owners, most of whom know less than me about modern roads and powerful cars.

OldenBill wrote:How do I align my perception and who are the main players and what sort of action are you referring to?

I was imagining you were discussing other road users, so thinking that while you might think there is some angst involved, the individuals might not be feeling that so much.

Indeed you are correct, Gareth. A blank face may imply contempt to me but quite the opposite to the owner, who is wondering where the hell I am trying to put my car and how I wish to damage his human rights. lol

OldenBill wrote:My point is regarding allowing a right signalling vehicle to move out from a stationary position on the nearside into forward traffic where a gap is left, but the gap leaver's eyes cannot be clearly seen and no indication of "giving way" is given by hand or headlights.

I don't allow space unless I am already stopped or about to because of other traffic ahead. I tend to discount the preparedness if the driver of the parked vehicle hasn't already turned the wheels ready to move out, irrespective of an indicator. If indicating and wheels are turned, and if I hardly need to go out of my way to stop early such that there is space they can use, then I generally will.


I think this is the response of most drivers today. The sheer number of vehicles on the road has turned us all into zombies who, perhaps wisely, prefer to look after their own affairs and ignore their fellows.The expressions on the faces of so many drivers and passengers nowadays resemble the glazed looks of users on the London Underground at rush hour.

Thanks Gareth.

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Re: Let's Talk More

Postby Gareth » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:13 am

OldenBill wrote:
Gareth wrote:
OldenBill wrote:My point is regarding allowing a right signalling vehicle to move out from a stationary position on the nearside into forward traffic where a gap is left, but the gap leaver's eyes cannot be clearly seen and no indication of "giving way" is given by hand or headlights.

I don't allow space unless I am already stopped or about to because of other traffic ahead. I tend to discount the preparedness if the driver of the parked vehicle hasn't already turned the wheels ready to move out, irrespective of an indicator. If indicating and wheels are turned, and if I hardly need to go out of my way to stop early such that there is space they can use, then I generally will.

I think this is the response of most drivers today. The sheer number of vehicles on the road has turned us all into zombies who, perhaps wisely, prefer to look after their own affairs and ignore their fellows.

That seems unnecessarily pejorative.
  • If a driver isn't ready to join the stream of traffic, why would anyone bother waiting for them to get ready?
  • Similarly, if someone is travelling in a steady stream of traffic, why would they significantly interrupt that flow to let someone out of a side turning? It only makes sense to give extra space when already stopped or slowing to a very low speed.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...


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