Lane Conflict

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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exportmanuk
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Location: Manchester

Re: Lane Conflict

Postby exportmanuk » Thu May 24, 2018 10:08 am

Horse wrote:Oh - the motorcycle-specific version of the Highway Code permits this sort of action in any lane under any circumstances.

Perhaps.

That's the one I've got Rule 187 watch out for and give plenty of room to " Motorcycles" 8-) :biker:

But it also says vehicle straddling lanes or positioned in correctly.
Andrew Melton
Manchester 500

OldenBill
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Re: Lane Conflict

Postby OldenBill » Thu May 24, 2018 1:13 pm

Thanks to everyone trying to help me and sorry that by trying to generalise, I have caused confusion.

The two links lead to a junction we encountered in St Helens after becoming entirely lost 300 miles from home attending a funeral in a totally unknown location. Our satnav (now dumped) failed to understand that a new bridge had been built over the River Mersey and that the old one was now closed; following delay due to an accident, it finally led us through built up areas to the location under discussion, finally demanding that we "turn right, then turn left to your destination". For the avoidance of doubt, the nearside lane road markings were obscured by queuing vehicles and my main question is whether after leaving that lane they are today allowed to overtake on the left.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kk7xaedm1w4dr ... 1.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ueq6ir565n4bw ... 2.jpg?dl=0

OldenBill
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Re: Lane Conflict

Postby OldenBill » Thu May 24, 2018 1:21 pm

This further link includes the Green Direction board:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e0z6sg0f9we7e ... 3.jpg?dl=0

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Lane Conflict

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu May 24, 2018 1:33 pm

Here's the StreetView version so people can 'drive' it.

This is one of those frequent situations where the lack of signs to reinforce paint (which is often erroded or has vehicles covering it) would make the situation so much better for a non-local.

There's not a lot you can do once you find yourself stuck out in lane 2, other than indicate your wish to return to lane 1, coupled with lots of mirror checks, and hope a kind soul eases to let you move.

In the exiting a RAB situation, this too is very common with people wanting to always be in lane 2. If/when you are back in lane 1 you can 'undertake' but with extreme caution. As Horse has suggested this is a common situation for motorcycles where we find we could easily pass all the drivers not 'getting on with it in lane 2'. Sometimes I do pass, steadily, with an eye on each vehicle for the slightest hint of movement that they are going to return to lane 1.
Mike Roberts

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Lane Conflict

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu May 24, 2018 1:45 pm

OldenBill wrote:For the avoidance of doubt, the nearside lane road markings were obscured by queuing vehicles and my main question is whether after leaving that lane they are today allowed to overtake on the left.

Can I throw it back to you and ask what you expect the cars in lane 1 to do? Do you expect the cars in lane 1 to stay behind all the cars in lane 2?

Surely this is just the situation the Highway Code covers in rule 163 when it says "stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left"?
Mike Roberts

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exportmanuk
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Location: Manchester

Re: Lane Conflict

Postby exportmanuk » Thu May 24, 2018 2:44 pm

And as you have also found Sat Nav maps are not always up to date.
Andrew Melton
Manchester 500

OldenBill
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Re: Lane Conflict

Postby OldenBill » Thu May 24, 2018 3:01 pm

You can say that again, Andrew!!! Are you all bikers on this thread? Looks like I shall need to get mine out again, particularly as they pay nothing on the Mersey bridge!

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exportmanuk
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Location: Manchester

Re: Lane Conflict

Postby exportmanuk » Thu May 24, 2018 3:26 pm

Not all bikers but there are a few: Not been over the new bridge yet its not too far from me and didn't know it was free for bikers
I can see it being included in the next group rideout :-)
Andrew Melton
Manchester 500

OldenBill
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Re: Lane Conflict

Postby OldenBill » Thu May 24, 2018 3:29 pm

Mike thanks. I suppose that is exactly what I am expecting, so it seems that the increasing volume and speed of traffic is pushing the Highway Code towards a rethink before some bright barrister quotes the status quo. Yes, you may overtake if the vehicle in front has signalled right and, indeed, if traffic is in queues travelling slowly. That was not the situation I experienced where all the Lane 1 occupiers accelerated after the lights changed at maximum permitted speed on the dual carriage-way towards their next hold up. If it is not lawful to undertake a middle lane hogger on motorways, how is that different from doing exactly the same on a 70mph dual carriage. Ironically, the only right lane hogger was me, all other vehicles taking the line of least resistance and staying in the nearside lane for a right turn! Mind you, drivers even take up the left lane for a three o'clock exit on a roundabout where I live, frightening 12 o'clock entry-waiters to death.

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Horse
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Re: Lane Conflict

Postby Horse » Thu May 24, 2018 3:48 pm

OldenBill wrote: Yes, you may overtake if the vehicle in front has signalled right and, indeed, if traffic is in queues travelling slowly.


Subtle wording in thecurrent HC:

Rule 268. Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right.

Until I started regular commuting on the M4 I would not overtake on the left except in very slow queues. My views changed.
My own views. For better or worse :)


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