Clutch - heel & toe

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
fungus
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Re: Clutch - heel & toe

Postby fungus » Sun May 06, 2018 7:57 pm

I can pivot my ankle a little, then I slide my heel, and finally I have to lift my foot. I have size 7 shoes, so someone like my daughter with size 3 shoes is going to have to lift their foot from virtually the start of releasing the clutch.

Nigel.

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jcochrane
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Re: Clutch - heel & toe

Postby jcochrane » Wed May 09, 2018 3:17 pm

You say Left foot? just about impossible!! The technique is to use the right foot to operate brake and pedal. I place my right heel between the brake and throttle which provides a consistent reference point as to to reach/position of the two pedals accurately every time with the foot pointing almost straight, and also provides a firm base to roll the foot between the two pedals, without loosing contact with either pedal, allowing a high degree accuracy. I generally use sustained matching rather than blipping.

Cars with pedals that pivot from the floor pose much more of a challenge. In some cases I've used my heel on the throttle and pointed the my foot over the brake and varying pressure on the two pedals as required to brake and match revs.

In very old cars of the past I've used my heel on the brake and pointed my toe over to operate the metal linkage of the throttle rather than the pedal.

Usually there is a way but not saying that in some cases it is not possible. I am not keen on the set up of some cars where the throttle is taken away from you when you brake!!
Last edited by jcochrane on Wed May 09, 2018 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Horse
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Re: Clutch - heel & toe

Postby Horse » Wed May 09, 2018 3:30 pm

jcochrane wrote:You say Left foot? just about impossible!! The technique is to use the right foot to operate brake and pedal.


Horse wrote:Recently, I read the ex-Stig's 'How to Drive' book.

One of the things he suggests is to pivot your left foot on the heel when changing gear. I can't do this, I have to lift my foot off the floor if it releasing the clutch is to be anywhere near smooth. Any thoughts?


:shock:

:bash:
My own views. For better or worse :)

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jcochrane
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Re: Clutch - heel & toe

Postby jcochrane » Wed May 09, 2018 3:41 pm

Horse wrote:
jcochrane wrote:You say Left foot? just about impossible!! The technique is to use the right foot to operate brake and pedal.


Horse wrote:Recently, I read the ex-Stig's 'How to Drive' book.

One of the things he suggests is to pivot your left foot on the heel when changing gear. I can't do this, I have to lift my foot off the floor if it releasing the clutch is to be anywhere near smooth. Any thoughts?


:shock:

:bash:

I tend to keep my left heel on the floor, relying on ankle flexibility. I prefer the stable base in provides, It does mean that the initial positioning requires tilting the foot a bit towards you, to gain the range of movement required and then pointing the foot forward and down whilst maintaining contact with the floor, (the heel is not pressed hard on the floor but may slide slightly if required to get the range of movement necessary and clutch pedal characteristics, as the clutch is operated.
Last edited by jcochrane on Wed May 09, 2018 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jcochrane
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Re: Clutch - heel & toe

Postby jcochrane » Wed May 09, 2018 3:53 pm

To expand on this.."In very old cars of the past I've used my heel on the brake and pointed my toe over to operate the metal linkage of the throttle rather than the pedal."...

This is the only way I found to heel n toe on the old cars where the brake and throttle pedals were at the same height at rest. A soon as you braked the brake pedal was so low in relation to the throttle pedal making it impossible to operate, hence operating the throttle from the linkage which was reachable.

I guess also being still a child, when I drove these old bangers, my feet were much smaller. :lol:

When I was 17 and owned my first car I did bend the throttle to get the ideal position I wanted. Not something I would want or need to do on new cars.

crr003
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Re: Clutch - heel & toe

Postby crr003 » Wed May 09, 2018 6:24 pm

Horse wrote:Recently, I read the ex-Stig's 'How to Drive' book.

One of the things he suggests is to pivot your left foot on the heel when changing gear. I can't do this, I have to lift my foot off the floor if it releasing the clutch is to be anywhere near smooth. Any thoughts?

Was this road or track related?
Andy Walsh (Car Limits) can demonstrate left foot braking/swapping left and right foot on the brake/left foot on the clutch pedal/right foot H&Ts for nippy trail braking/gear changing, but fairly benefitless(sp) on road. But his left heel is pretty much down.

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jcochrane
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Re: Clutch - heel & toe

Postby jcochrane » Thu May 10, 2018 12:37 am

I've driven some cars that have particularly heavy clutches requiring a stamping action to depress and they usually have a fierce bite point. Some early Porsches are like this. In this case I haven't placed my heel down but having kicked the clutch in and having taken the gear, to then just drop the clutch. Sounds crazy :roll: but produces the smoothest transition. If incorporating heel "'n" toe, with this type of clutch, I find sustained revs much easier than trying to get the blip just right so that the clutch snaps in at just the right moment with the dying revs. Clearly an area for me to work on.
Last edited by jcochrane on Thu May 10, 2018 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Clutch - heel & toe

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Thu May 10, 2018 8:06 am

I think maybe we're at cross purposes here.

"Pivot ankle when changing gear" = left foot on clutch in a vertical plane so as to achieve smooth clutch engagement.
"Heel and toe" = right foot on brake / accelerator in a horizontal plane in order to operate both pedals at once.

HnT does not refer to the left foot.

Be careful with that bight point John, or you will find yourself getting tied up in knots!
Nick

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jcochrane
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Re: Clutch - heel & toe

Postby jcochrane » Thu May 10, 2018 8:33 am

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:I think maybe we're at cross purposes here.

"Pivot ankle when changing gear" = left foot on clutch in a vertical plane so as to achieve smooth clutch engagement.
"Heel and toe" = right foot on brake / accelerator in a horizontal plane in order to operate both pedals at once.

HnT does not refer to the left foot.

Be careful with that bight point John, or you will find yourself getting tied up in knots!


Thanks Nick. bight..."tied up in knots" :lol: I've corrected the spelling in the post.

I also could not see what part the clutch (operated with the left foot) had to do with "heel and toe" (right foot).

Speary
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Re: Clutch - heel & toe

Postby Speary » Fri May 11, 2018 10:32 am

Horse wrote:Recently, I read the ex-Stig's 'How to Drive' book.

One of the things he suggests is to pivot your left foot on the heel when changing gear. I can't do this, I have to lift my foot off the floor if it releasing the clutch is to be anywhere near smooth. Any thoughts?


It was a surprisingly good book too.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Drive-Ulti ... 1447272838

Don’t you mean right foot between accelerator and brake pedals. Some driving shoes have a wide bit on the right so you can roll your foot onto the accelerator when braking to give it a blip for the downchange


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