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Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:28 pm
by Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
Horse wrote:Does that mean that I don't look to the distance? Of course I do :) Into the distance, glances across views etc. But . . . I don't use those long continuous views in any 'thirds'-style manner. Perhaps because I've never been taught it or really understood the explanations I've read.

I bet you do something. Next time you're out on a nice open bit of road on a clear day enjoying a drive / ride, analyse yourself. I bet you'll find you come onto a straight, accelerate for a while, decide you're going fast enough, then think about having to slow down at the end of the straight. Don't get overcome with thinking about distances, just be aware that there are phases.
Horse wrote:The point is that your intention affects your decision through confirmation bias - you mentally cherry pick information which supports, confirms, the decision you want to take.

* That said, it's simple and well-known that one of the effects of travelling faster is that it's more difficult to see what's closer-to.

Yes. But we fight it all the time. Self-awareness is the key to self-improvement. I went out for a drive after my hospital visit this morning just for fun, and a considerable part of the fun was self-analysis - "what could I have done better there?". There'll never be a drive without any of those.

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:05 am
by Gareth
Horse wrote:And when driving, do you wait blankly for things to happen

Broadly, yes. Don't you?

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:12 am
by Horse
Gareth wrote:
Horse wrote:And when driving, do you wait blankly for things to happen

Broadly, yes. Don't you?


No search strategy (for example including mirrors, near, far, dash)? No scanning, etc? No use of observation links, no 'what if?' etc?

No use of active positioning, placing yourself to improve view - whether to see or be seen - or selecting the road surface with best grip before needing it?

Really?

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:14 am
by Gareth
Horse wrote:
Gareth wrote:
Horse wrote:And when driving, do you wait blankly for things to happen

Broadly, yes. Don't you?


No search strategy (for example including mirrors, near, far, dash)? No scanning, etc? No use of observation links, no 'what if?' etc?

No use of active positioning, placing yourself to improve view - whether to see or be seen - or selecting the road surface with best grip before needing it?

Really?

All those things without thinking about it. Do you need to think about every little thing you do? Really?

Re: Cognitive bias and the "thirds" rule

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:44 am
by Horse
Given the comments in the ADI bashing thread, it would appear that many of those things are not instinctive or common.

I know that I'm not great at working things out for myself, and as much as I might recommend self-awareness for improvement I know it's not easy or natural for me. I prefer (laziness?) to be told what to do :) What I know I can do is break an action down to be able to teach it to someone else.

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:56 am
by Horse
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote: I bet you do something. Next time you're out on a nice open bit of road on a clear day enjoying a drive / ride, analyse yourself. I bet you'll find you come onto a straight, accelerate for a while, decide you're going fast enough


I'm sure I do to - although that's not the point. The point about cognitive bias is the how decisions are made.

It's not just in driving that we rely on these mental short cuts, there are plenty more examples:
Taste - do you trust your tastebuds?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Multisensory-F ... 0081003510
Multisensory Flavor Perception: From Fundamental Neuroscience Through to the Marketplace provides state-of-the-art coverage of the latest insights from the rapidly-expanding world of multisensory flavor research. The book highlights the various types of crossmodal interactions, such as sound and taste, and vision and taste, showing their impact on sensory and hedonic perception, along with their consumption in the context of food and drink.
- Do you trust your eyes to always see what's there and understand it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misdirection_(magic)

As much as we'd all like to think we are in control of everything, yada yada, we're not. Our eyes and brains can't cope with the world and all it throws at us, so we take mental shortcuts.

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:04 am
by Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
Horse wrote:I'm sure I do to - although that's not the point.

The point seems to be whatever you're determined to make it. All we're doing is vocalising a method you've admitted you probably also use, but you want to brand us as dangerous lunatics obsessed with speed and "concentrating on the far distance". Get over yourself! :swords: :lol:

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:23 am
by Horse
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:
Horse wrote:I'm sure I do to - although that's not the point.

The point seems to be whatever you're determined to make it. All we're doing is vocalising a method you've admitted you probably also use, but you want to brand us as dangerous lunatics obsessed with speed and "concentrating on the far distance". Get over yourself! :swords: :lol:


OK, have it your own way, all I'm doing is putting information in front of members. If some don't see it (or are biased against it ;) ) then there's nothing I can do to change that.

It's interesting, sadly, that in a forum of people who profess to want to improve, the focus seems to be on the physical control aspects (BGOL PP DDC, etc), or levels of interpretation of a standard, rather than wanting to reflect on the mental side of it. Of course, that could just be my perception of it :lol:

Re: Cognitive bias and the "thirds" rule

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:26 am
by Horse
PS Quoted from the very first post in this thread.

Horse wrote: Please don't shoot the messenger (yes, I know they shoot horses, don't they?) over this. Really, ignoring what the brain is doing / not doing is no different from ignoring how the brakes and tyres work and their limits.


Now tell me what point you think I'm making [badly] . . .

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:41 am
by Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
Horse wrote:Of course, that could just be my perception of it :lol:

Yes, it is. You want to believe we're speed freaks who don't think, so you do, despite many assurances to the contrary. All your finger-wagging is noted, and I've read some of the bumph that goes with it. I am aware that my brain will take shortcuts - remember the discussion on saccades, a year or two ago? So we're aware of this stuff, conscious of the dangers, and doing the physical bits as well. So is any thinking driver. Few people believe they're perfect and I'm certainly not one of them.

YOU chose to hijack a discussion on a completely different topic to introduce cognitive bias. While recognising the validity of your points, the fact remains that the rule of thirds can be a useful adjunct to hazard assessment and, yes, even progress! :shock: