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Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:09 pm
by Horse
jont- wrote: So why does insurance typically increase when someone goes from L plates to having passed?


Perhaps because the driver is on their own, rather than supervised? Why do you think it is?

Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:11 pm
by Horse
crr003 wrote:
Horse wrote:
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote: having near-misses which seemed to have happened . . . that couldn't be covered in formal driving instruction .


HP goes some way towards that.

It's a game - like that gorilla thing you're keen on!


I like games :)

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/p/d ... ining.html

FWIW the contents have been published in IAM Group magazines and that link (and the previous Web page home) have been visited thousands of times, so I'm probably not quite alone in my view ;) :cheers:

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:12 pm
by jont-
Horse wrote:
jont- wrote: So why does insurance typically increase when someone goes from L plates to having passed?


Perhaps because the driver is on their own, rather than supervised? Why do you think it is?

You said they got safer. My assumption was that their accident rate increased, hence the increase in premium.

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:17 pm
by Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
jont- wrote:
Horse wrote:Intriguingly, learners get 'safer' (at least, have fewer reported crashes) as they continue on driving solo, so they do seem to improve, learn. The challenge is whether 'that' learning can be incorporated into 'L' training and testing (because if it isn't tested then it's unlikely to be trained)?

So why does insurance typically increase when someone goes from L plates to having passed?

I imagine they get worse before they get better. Suddenly released into the wild, wayhay! Off they go, faster and faster until they've had a few "oh sheeeeeeeeeeeet!" moments, then they calm down a bit, get better at predicting stuff etc.

And, of course, they haven't got anybody with them in the car any more, most of the time.

Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:21 pm
by crr003
Horse wrote:
crr003 wrote:
Horse wrote:
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote: having near-misses which seemed to have happened . . . that couldn't be covered in formal driving instruction .


HP goes some way towards that.

It's a game - like that gorilla thing you're keen on!


I like games :)

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/p/d ... ining.html

Too much to read!
I've got to watch Countdown now to see what the little minx is wearing.

Maybe you can find some research (if anyone can you can!) to prove that the HP scoring drastically improved when they moved from the old film clips to full CGI clips recently. There really is a learnable skill to scoring well. If people were only allowed one click that would be a better test.

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:26 pm
by Strangely Brown
Horse wrote:
jont- wrote: So why does insurance typically increase when someone goes from L plates to having passed?


Perhaps because the driver is on their own, rather than supervised? Why do you think it is?


Post-achievement confidence boost. i.e. they think they are better than they actually are. Even police drivers can suffer from it immediately after passing an advanced course. It is not an uncommon phenomenon.

There is one well known driving coach that likes to finish handing exercises on a "loss of control" to help compensate.

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:29 pm
by Horse
jont- wrote:You said they got safer.


They do, over time.

Page 3 in this pdf:
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... o2DXmt2uRA

Now whether that is down to knowledge and experience, skill, or brain development etc., who knows . . . ?

Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:33 pm
by Horse
crr003 wrote: Maybe you can find some research (if anyone can you can!) to prove that the HP scoring drastically improved when they moved from the old film clips to full CGI clips recently. There really is a learnable skill to scoring well. If people were only allowed one click that would be a better test.


I could find you research to show that introduction of the HPT resulted in IIRC an 11% reductions in crashes.

As for my views on the HPT . . . FWIW I'm not a fan of its format and marking.

Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:15 pm
by crr003
Horse wrote:
crr003 wrote: Maybe you can find some research (if anyone can you can!) to prove that the HP scoring drastically improved when they moved from the old film clips to full CGI clips recently. There really is a learnable skill to scoring well. If people were only allowed one click that would be a better test.


I could find you research to show that introduction of the HPT resulted in IIRC an 11% reductions in crashes.

As for my views on the HPT . . . FWIW I'm not a fan of its format and marking.

This will help!
Over 300 pages though........
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... w-drivers/

Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:17 pm
by Horse
crr003 wrote: This will help!
Over 300 pages though........
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... w-drivers/


Indeed! Thanks, but no thanks :)

https://trl.co.uk/news/prev/15671

The video hazard perception test, which has been implemented in GB since 2002, was shown in the COHORT II study of learner and novice drivers to be associated with a fall in novice driver collisions. Since its implementation, the test is estimated to have prevented collisions valued at close to £1billion (using DfT monetary figures for lost economic output, human and medical costs associated with road casualties, and the police, insurance and damage costs associated with accidents).