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Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:59 pm
by jont-
Rolyan wrote: Many learner drivers accept that they have something to learn.

Right up until they pass their test :lol: :headbang:

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:02 pm
by Rolyan
jont- wrote:
Rolyan wrote: Many learner drivers accept that they have something to learn.

Right up until they pass their test :lol: :headbang:

Hell yeah!

Lets face it, we tell learners that they don't start learning to drive until after they've passed their test. Then we moan about it when they change!

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:04 pm
by Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
Rolyan wrote:Those things that are going to get you are close, but at one point were not close. So by spotting/anticipating them early enough, you can plan to deal with them before they get close enough to get you.

I know that you know that, and I know that you know that I know that you know it...

(and much more good sense besides)

He does know, but he likes a good argument debate :P

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:06 pm
by Horse
Rolyan wrote: I know that you know that, and I know that you know that I know that you know it,


I'm glad someone does :lol:

Intriguingly, learners get 'safer' (at least, have fewer reported crashes) as they continue on driving solo, so they do seem to improve, learn. The challenge is whether 'that' learning can be incorporated into 'L' training and testing (because if it isn't tested then it's unlikely to be trained)?

Coincidentally:
http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/6168.html

A new report recommends a ‘more comprehensive approach’ to improving young driver safety, which includes the social and environmental factors that put young drivers at risk.

The report, written for the RAC Foundation by associate professor Teresa Senserrick from the University of New South Wales and Neale Kinnear from TRL, looks at why young drivers are ‘significantly and consistently overrepresented in crashes’ - despite a variety of pre and post-test initiatives.

The authors suggest it is time to stop thinking about ‘problem’ young drivers and adopt a broader, more comprehensive approach to improving young driver safety, which goes beyond ‘simply blaming individuals’.

The report finds that while new drivers of all ages are at increased risk of a crash when first starting to drive independently, young drivers are also affected by age-related influences linked to the stage of their development.

These include the ‘well-recognised’ heightening of sensation-seeking and peer influences, but also the less well-known vulnerability to distractions and fatigue.

The report argues that there must be an evidence-based approach to managing known risk factors - like driving at night and with peer-passengers - and advocates looking again at the successes achieved by different forms of graduated licensing introduced around the world.

The report puts forward practical examples such as encouraging young people to use public transport at night, and greater parental support during the early years of license-holding, as ways to reduce young driver crash rates.

Steve Gooding, director of the RAC Foundation, said: “A huge amount of work has been done over many years to develop the way we train new, young drivers, focusing on developing the technical skills of driving and learning the laws that govern the use of our roads.

“The concept of the ‘safe system’ has also seen dramatic improvements in road and vehicle engineering designed to protect us when things go wrong.

“But the statistics are telling us that we need a change of tack: young people make up about 7% of the driving population but are involved in 25% of all crashes involving death and serious injury.

“We need to get away from the idea that young drivers themselves are alone to blame when things go wrong.

“Of course, individuals must be responsible for their own actions, but this research suggests that we need to stand back and look at the bigger picture, to consider how the wider environment is setting young drivers up to fail or succeed.

“Until the driverless-car revolution sweeps this issue away we will still need to teach the technical skills of traditional driver training, but alongside them we also need to help young people help themselves at a time in their lives when, physiologically and psychologically, they are more reactive to stress and therefore less able to take the right decisions than adults in similar situations.”


Report:
http://www.racfoundation.org/assets/rac ... r_2017.pdf

Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:15 pm
by Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
I'm sure we all remember being young, newly-qualified drivers (actually I was a bit unrepresentative, at 22) and having near-misses which seemed to have happened to us without us contributing to them, in some inexplicable fashion. Of course, what was happening was that we were learning, by experience, all those possibilities (or at least some of them) that couldn't be covered in formal driving instruction. People always tell you when you pass your test "now you can start to learn to drive". Unfortunately, it's at least partly true, and I'm not sure how it can be completely replaced during driver training. You can't have an instructor with you for the rest of your driving career.

Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:28 pm
by Horse
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote: having near-misses which seemed to have happened . . . that couldn't be covered in formal driving instruction .


HP goes some way towards that.

Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:34 pm
by Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
HP=hazard perception? The ones I've seen (it didn't exist in 1980) don't really cover many of the weird and wonderful things that can happen on the road. 14 video clips (with many simulators available online) is a very small subset. But I agree it's better than nothing.

I think what new drivers struggle with more than anything is how fast things move when people aren't making allowances for the L plates any more. Not just physical speed, but ever-changing scenarios.

Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:45 pm
by crr003
Horse wrote:
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote: having near-misses which seemed to have happened . . . that couldn't be covered in formal driving instruction .


HP goes some way towards that.

It's a game - like that gorilla thing you're keen on!

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:54 pm
by jont-
Horse wrote:Intriguingly, learners get 'safer' (at least, have fewer reported crashes) as they continue on driving solo, so they do seem to improve, learn. The challenge is whether 'that' learning can be incorporated into 'L' training and testing (because if it isn't tested then it's unlikely to be trained)?

So why does insurance typically increase when someone goes from L plates to having passed?

Re: Masters assessment

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:01 pm
by crr003
Horse wrote:
Rolyan wrote: I know that you know that, and I know that you know that I know that you know it,


I'm glad someone does :lol:

Intriguingly, learners get 'safer' (at least, have fewer reported crashes) as they continue on driving solo, so they do seem to improve, learn. The challenge is whether 'that' learning can be incorporated into 'L' training and testing (because if it isn't tested then it's unlikely to be trained)?

Coincidentally:
http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/6168.html

Australian?
There was research out of there saying how the two second rule was a licence to carnage; it had to be three seconds.
Still, it's always on point to bang the GDE matrix gong.

Anyway, learners get better because their physical control develops and their spacial awareness/size of the car/can I fit skills develop. I haven't had a large research grant to prove that though.
Can you do that pre-test? Sure, make them have 100/150 hours before test.

[cool story]I had a very nervous learner who had been a bit traumatised by her uncle, you know the type; "don't need to waste money on a bloody ADI, I can drive, I'll tell you how....." She passed but was always a bit nervous/wary. Only had 1.5 hours a week, no private practice. Eight months later she calls out of the blue for a motorway lesson. She'd been driving in her own car during the interlude. She was a different driver. Calm, confident but safe (obviously subliminally due to her training....). If you practice (the right things) you get better. [/cool story]