Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:59 pm

I'm prepared to bet that with suitable finesse, even a C1 can be got off the line without throttle...
Nick

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Horse
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby Horse » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:44 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:I'm prepared to bet that with suitable finesse, even a C1 can be got off the line without throttle...


I know (well, guessed) that you're referring to a Citroën?

However, with reference to the DVSA not permitting certain vehicles, several years ago they banned the BMW C1 motorcycle from being used during Compulsory Basic Training and during tests.
My own views. For better or worse :)

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:05 pm

Horse wrote:I know (well, guessed) that you're referring to a Citroën?

Yes, since that was the vehicle in the video posted earlier ;)
Nick

fungus
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby fungus » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:19 pm

Certain vehicles are banned from DVSA tests. For instance, the Mini convertable because of visibility issues for the examiner. The Renault Scenic with an electronic hand brake was banned years ago, but with this type of technology becoming commonplace I think we will see a move towards them being allowed. I'm not sure of the rulling on cars with hill hold assist, but I would imagine that currently they would not be allowed. This may alter if the technology becomes commonplace on the more common cars that driving schools use.

Nigel.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby Strangely Brown » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:25 pm

It doesn't matter that it is commonplace on the cars that driving schools use. What matters (or should matter) is what cars they are most likely to drive after passing the test. If they are taught in a car with too many nannies and assistants then that is not a true test of their ability to drive, especially if their own car has none of that "help".

fungus
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby fungus » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:43 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:I'm prepared to bet that with suitable finesse, even a C1 can be got off the line without throttle...


If the driver has enough finesse, then yes, any car could be moved without throttle but you wouldn't get very far very quickly.

Something I get learners to practice is, with the car on a slight slope, engage first gear, find the biting point, then using no gas, squeeze the clutch just enough to allow the car to roll back a little, then stop the roll using the clutch only, then ease the clutch just enough to creep the car at a very slow crawl, then repeat. The object of the exercise is to obviously improve clutch control, but also to make them realise that they don't need to rev the guts off the car when doing a hill start, and that it's the clutch that's driving the car forward when a gear is engaged, the gas only making the engine spin faster which in turn increases the cars speed once drive is taken up. However, it is important for them to realise that once the drive is taken up they must then use more throttle and revs before changing up when pulling away uphill than they would normally use on the flat.

This will be obvious to experienced drivers who will adjust the amount of throttle without thinking, but learners may, or may not be aware of the outcome.

Nigel.

fungus
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby fungus » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:59 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:It doesn't matter that it is commonplace on the cars that driving schools use. What matters (or should matter) is what cars they are most likely to drive after passing the test. If they are taught in a car with too many nannies and assistants then that is not a true test of their ability to drive, especially if their own car has none of that "help".


I entirely agree, hence why my car has none of thes" helps". However, the day is coming when all of these aids will be commonplace and, many, not all, new drivers seem to aquire relatively new cars these days. Also technology has advanced more in the last ten years than it had in the previous thirty or may be more years. Then with the advent of electric cars things will be different again. I imagine that another driving licence catagory would be created to cover them. All this will affect future driving tests, and the DVSA will need to adapt the driving test accordinlgly. This could make it difficult for a driving school to decide on the best vehicle to teach in.

Nigel.

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Horse
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby Horse » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:09 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:
Horse wrote:I know (well, guessed) that you're referring to a Citroën?

Yes, since that was the vehicle in the video posted earlier ;)


Apologies, I saw the video's title and scrolled on down :)
My own views. For better or worse :)

crr003
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby crr003 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:51 am

fungus wrote:
Strangely Brown wrote:It doesn't matter that it is commonplace on the cars that driving schools use. What matters (or should matter) is what cars they are most likely to drive after passing the test. If they are taught in a car with too many nannies and assistants then that is not a true test of their ability to drive, especially if their own car has none of that "help".


I entirely agree, hence why my car has none of thes" helps". However, the day is coming when all of these aids will be commonplace and, many, not all, new drivers seem to aquire relatively new cars these days. Also technology has advanced more in the last ten years than it had in the previous thirty or may be more years. Then with the advent of electric cars things will be different again. I imagine that another driving licence catagory would be created to cover them. All this will affect future driving tests, and the DVSA will need to adapt the driving test accordinlgly. This could make it difficult for a driving school to decide on the best vehicle to teach in.

Nigel.

People have already taken tests in electric vehicles. They get a B Auto licence.

fungus wrote: I'm not sure of the rulling on cars with hill hold assist, but I would imagine that currently they would not be allowed. This may alter if the technology becomes commonplace on the more common cars that driving schools use.

Hill start assist is allowed. Pretty much anything except the reverse/parallel parking automation, so electric handbrakes/reversing cameras......

https://www.gov.uk/driving-test/using-your-own-car

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Masters assessment

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:23 pm

I have hill start assist on my Clio. I try not to use it, but can't switch it off. It feels like being a champagne cork coming out of a bottle. :(
Mike Roberts


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