Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:06 pm

I can turn my ABS off by going into Race mode. That turns everything off and I'd never use it on the road.

Sport mode detunes ESC sensitivity while using more revs by holding each gear longer (it also alters the timing/fuel a little). You can hold the sport mode button in to then flip through some options on ESC, ABS etc. But who needs that complexity when driving? I just use 'normal' around town/dual carriageways and toggle to sport (and manual gear changes) on B roads.
Last edited by GTR1400MAN on Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mike Roberts

fungus
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Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Postby fungus » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:38 pm

I would imagine that turning off a "Safety Aid" would have serious implications on ones insurance in the event of an accident on the public road, possibly invalidating the insurance.

Nigel.

crr003
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Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Postby crr003 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:02 pm

Gareth wrote:
crr003 wrote:Maybe they never get activated in normal driving, but in today's litigious society, if one ended up in an RTC through no fault, I wonder how insurance companies would react if they found out DSC was switched off, or the ABS fuse was missing?

Just the same as if the car didn't have DSC or ABS, one hopes, else it's a short step to disallowing driving cars to be driven without them fitted.

It's a bit different to turning off something that's provided as standard during normal driving?
One can drive round without wearing a seat belt if the car's old enough, so I doubt the older cars would be actively removed from service.

Gareth
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Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Postby Gareth » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:26 am

crr003 wrote:It's a bit different to turning off something that's provided as standard during normal driving?

Not in any practical sense, but it does allow for virtue signalling.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

waremark
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Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Postby waremark » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:29 pm

Horse wrote:
waremark wrote:Not being able to switch off rev matching in a manual car would stop me buying it.


Even though it might facilitate BGOL? :)


Yes. I find that modern automatics (whether of the traditional or dual clutch variety) do a brilliant job. My only reason for wanting manual cars is to enjoy the satisfaction of exercising skills. One of the skills which I enjoy exercising is heel and toe to rev match when changing down under braking.

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Horse
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Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Postby Horse » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:29 pm

waremark wrote:
Horse wrote:
waremark wrote:Not being able to switch off rev matching in a manual car would stop me buying it.


Even though it might facilitate BGOL? :)


My only reason for wanting manual cars is to enjoy the satisfaction of exercising skills. One of the skills which I enjoy exercising is heel and toe to rev match when changing down under braking.


I don't know how often you change (buy or borrow) cars, but you may be in for an unwelcome surprise if you try that in some other modern cars, which switch the throttle off if the brakes are applied.
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Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Postby Carbon Based » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:04 pm

Gareth wrote:AFAIK it's generally not possible to disable ABS except by pulling a fuse.

I have a vague memory that it was a feature on some as IIRC a fully locked wheel could stop quicker in some circumstances - thick fresh snow or gravel as they would build up in front of the wheels.
https://jalopnik.com/how-to-stop-on-sno ... 1790269905 shows a slightly different approach.

waremark
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Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Postby waremark » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:40 am

Horse wrote:
waremark wrote:My only reason for wanting manual cars is to enjoy the satisfaction of exercising skills. One of the skills which I enjoy exercising is heel and toe to rev match when changing down under braking.


I don't know how often you change (buy or borrow) cars, but you may be in for an unwelcome surprise if you try that in some other modern cars, which switch the throttle off if the brakes are applied.

I am lucky enough to buy or borrow cars fairly frequently. I have indeed encountered ones which do as you say. Again, I would not buy a manual version if I couldn't H & T. It is enjoyable, and in a manual car without autoblip helps deliver a smooth progressive flowing drive.

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jont-
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Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Postby jont- » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:52 am

Carbon Based wrote:
Gareth wrote:AFAIK it's generally not possible to disable ABS except by pulling a fuse.

I have a vague memory that it was a feature on some as IIRC a fully locked wheel could stop quicker in some circumstances - thick fresh snow or gravel as they would build up in front of the wheels.
https://jalopnik.com/how-to-stop-on-sno ... 1790269905 shows a slightly different approach.

You can see the benefit of threshold braking on tarmac too. Another "trick" with ABS is to let go of the steering if you want to stop in a straight line. Otherwise small movements of the wheel will make the car think you're trying to steer, and thus relax the brake pressure to allow this (remember ABS's primary goal is actually to allow steering under heavy braking - it's just that you need the wheels unlocked to achieve this).

However I'm still unaware of any system that disables the ABS. If you can threshold brake consistently and accurately, it won't hinder you, but for mortals its almost always going to be a good thing (another situation where you can't threshold brake but ABS does a very good job is on split-u surfaces - eg nearside on wet tarmac/greasy concrete, offside on dry tarmac).

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Re: Driving instructors and learners - do they drive like each other?

Postby kfae8959 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:59 am

Horse wrote:I don't know how often you change (buy or borrow) cars, but you may be in for an unwelcome surprise if you try that in some other modern cars, which switch the throttle off if the brakes are applied.


waremark mentions that he has come across cars that don't allow heel and toe, but my understanding of the most common Bosch ECUs is that they cut the throttle if the brakes are applied while the throttle is open, but not if it is opened after the brake pedal is pressed. If my understanding is correct, then closing the throttle, braking, and rolling onto the throttle again to rev-match, should work, but left foot braking will cut the power.

David


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