Dutch Reach

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
Taffy
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Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:46 pm

Dutch Reach

Postby Taffy » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:20 am

Does anybody use, or recommend the use of, the 'Dutch reach'?
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... ys-charity

Gareth
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Location: Berkshire
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Re: Dutch Reach

Postby Gareth » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:06 pm

Taffy - do you use or recommend it? If you use it, how long have you been doing so?

The CTC website carries a blog entry about it.

I was struck by the different slant in the CTC and Guardian figures ... contrast "In 2015, there were 474 reported car 'dooring' incidents, according to the Department for Transport", (the source article?), with "The problem has caused the deaths of eight people – primarily cyclists – in five years and injured thousands more, according to official figures"
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

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jont-
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Location: Flatlands

Re: Dutch Reach

Postby jont- » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:14 pm

I don't have much option in the caterham, I can't reach my right arm behind me to undo the poppers, so I have to use my left hand :lol:

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akirk
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Location: Cotswolds

Re: Dutch Reach

Postby akirk » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:59 pm

no I don't use it, because I look before opening the door - rather than relying on a mechanism to force me to turn around...
there is also the need for cyclists to change - comments about how they don't have time to stop and therefore it is all the driver's fault... what if it was a pedestrian stepping out - like the recent court case - is it acceptable then for the cyclist to say they didn't have time to stop - of course not, so there is still an obligation for all road users to be making progress at a pace that allows them to stop whatever happens... that isn't saying that it becomes there fault - just that there are two parties to the incident...
despite all that, it isn't a bad technique to be taught...
Alasdair

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Dutch Reach

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:35 pm

Is there any other way to open the door? Why would you use the arm nearest the door and have to twist/contort your wrist to reach the handle?

I will have to watch other people get out of my car.
Mike Roberts

Pyrolol
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Location: San Francisco

Re: Dutch Reach

Postby Pyrolol » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:22 pm

I'm usually quite good at looking, but I don't always reach across. I'd prefer to, I've just found the habit difficult to build.

crr003
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Re: Dutch Reach

Postby crr003 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:26 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:Is there any other way to open the door? Why would you use the arm nearest the door and have to twist/contort your wrist to reach the handle?

I will have to watch other people get out of my car.

Huh? Where's your door handle?
Normal passengers/drivers flick the door open with their left/right hand then push the door open with their elbow. It it's windy, the door flies open and can damage the car.
PDIs are taught to teach to open the door using the opposite hand and hold the door with the other hand to control the door opening. Plus use the door mirror/look there are no pedestrians/passing vehicles. Lesson 1. Controls.
Trouble is not many people want to spend £30/hour to be told how to do something they've been doing since they were allowed in the front seat.

People are also taught to leave a car door's width when passing stationary vehicles. Why can't bicyclists manage this if most of them are supposed to be car drivers too?

ancient
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:03 pm

Re: Dutch Reach

Postby ancient » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:33 pm

akirk wrote:no I don't use it, because I look before opening the door - rather than relying on a mechanism to force me to turn around...
there is also the need for cyclists to change - comments about how they don't have time to stop and therefore it is all the driver's fault... what if it was a pedestrian stepping out - like the recent court case - is it acceptable then for the cyclist to say they didn't have time to stop - of course not, so there is still an obligation for all road users to be making progress at a pace that allows them to stop whatever happens... that isn't saying that it becomes there fault - just that there are two parties to the incident...
despite all that, it isn't a bad technique to be taught...
Alasdair

Indeed there are rules for cyclists passing parked cars:-
Rule 67 inter alia wrote:You should
...Leave plenty of room when passing parked vehicles and watch out for doors being opened or pedestrians stepping into your path

This can be compared to the requirements on a trained and tested car driver who will of course know and understand the (largely non-existent, ask Chris Grayling's driver) meaning of:
Rule 239 inter alia wrote:you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for cyclists or other traffic

I'll leave the difference to the reader, since this is an AD forum. ;)

Of course us responsible cyclists get grief from a large proportion of the trained and tested car drivers when we ride outside the door zone, particularly when some trained and qualified Highways Engineer has decided to run a bike lane right down the door zone. I have tried to explain that the bike markings are there to show that this is a dangerous place to ride a bike :lol: , but somehow the aggression of the objections isn't diminished :roll: .

ancient
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Re: Dutch Reach

Postby ancient » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:36 pm

As for the Dutch Reach, I prefer to use properly adjusted door mirrors as the car's pillars tend to obscure large parts of the road if I try looking over my shoulder. When I had an MGA it lacked door and wing mirrors, also pillars of any sort, but the Dutch Reach wasn't necessary unless I had a stiff neck from a bad hotel pillow or similar. Turning my head was sufficient.

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Horse
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Re: Dutch Reach

Postby Horse » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:23 pm

Pyrolol wrote:I'm usually quite good at looking, but I don't always reach across. I'd prefer to, I've just found the habit difficult to build.


I'm quite good looking :)

ancient wrote:As for the Dutch Reach, I prefer to use properly adjusted door mirrors


I fold the mirrors up when parking, so use the inside mirror, then open the door slightly, listen for engines then look for bikes.
My own views. For better or worse :)


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