Lane closure due to roadworks

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Ste_ac
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Lane closure due to roadworks

Postby Ste_ac » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:52 pm

Is this out of order?

I was travelling southbound on the M6 joining the M5. Where the start of the M5 is only two lanes there were roadworks signs to inform that lane 1 was closed half a mile ahead. I was already in lane 1 but a queue moving at 5 to 10 mph had already formed beyond the half mile sign in lane 2, all bumper to bumper. I proceeded at a resoanble slow speed, 30 mph or so right down lane 1 as I knew some people wouldn't be too happy about it and sure enough two cars at various points down the queueing traffic swerved into my path. There were several more sign for 800 yard, 600 yard, etc notices for lane 1 closure before "merge in turn" signs close to the lane closure. At that point some sensible people left gaps so I could filter in without causing anyone to stop and let me in.

I doubt I was very popular with a lot of people in the queue, but I can't see the point of wasting over half a mile of tarmac, resulting in needlessly also extending the queue by half a mile to the point of almost backing onto the M6.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Lane closure due to roadworks

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:14 pm

Common problem with lane closures, left or right.

We are a nation of who likes to queue! Lorry drivers often like to become the lane police, trying to position themselves so you can't get past. It's quite clear you are supposed to merge at the merge point, not all jump in to one thin single file lane.
Mike Roberts

mainbeam
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Re: Lane closure due to roadworks

Postby mainbeam » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:55 am

Should compliance always trump meeting the expectations of other drivers? I have found similar problems can occur when using suspended operation bus lanes.

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Horse
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Re: Lane closure due to roadworks

Postby Horse » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:05 am

GTR1400MAN wrote: It's quite clear you are supposed to merge at the merge point, not all jump in to one thin single file lane.


All well and good. But what happens if the traffic is flowing at 'normal' speeds (ie cars at 70mph) and an HGV is trying to merge from the left - but a bolshy car driver won't leave space? Not an impossible or unlikely situation. [Actually, what do you mean by 'merge point', at the start of the cone taper?] You'll then have an HGV travelling at 56mph at the 'merge point'. Where's it supposed to go?

That's why temporary works are signed for 800m on the approach.

OK, make an exception for moving traffic - but get 70mph cars closing on 56mph HGVs and you'll soon get congestion, then queuing . . .
My own views. For better or worse :)

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Lane closure due to roadworks

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:44 am

Sign it "Use both lanes" from further back and "merge in turn" from close to the merge point (the start of the cone taper, yes). Also introduce a reduced speed limit from at least a mile away (although the OP's experience was that traffic was already doing only 5-10 mph).
Nick

crr003
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Re: Lane closure due to roadworks

Postby crr003 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:16 am

Horse wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote: It's quite clear you are supposed to merge at the merge point, not all jump in to one thin single file lane.


All well and good. But what happens if the traffic is flowing at 'normal' speeds (ie cars at 70mph) and an HGV is trying to merge from the left - but a bolshy car driver won't leave space? Not an impossible or unlikely situation. [Actually, what do you mean by 'merge point', at the start of the cone taper?] You'll then have an HGV travelling at 56mph at the 'merge point'. Where's it supposed to go?

That's why temporary works are signed for 800m on the approach.

OK, make an exception for moving traffic - but get 70mph cars closing on 56mph HGVs and you'll soon get congestion, then queuing . . .

This is a great read! D6.23 relates to merge in turn.
http://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsm/tsm-chapter-08-part-01.pdf

D6.23.6 Merge in turn signing should be used only where there is a temporary mandatory speed limit of 50 mph or less imposed at the works site.

crr003
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Re: Lane closure due to roadworks

Postby crr003 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:51 am

Ste_ac wrote:Is this out of order?

No.

Highway Code 134 and 288 tells anyone who has passed a Driving Test what they should do. "Merge in turn" signs aren't even needed.

I've heard of LGV drivers getting done for obstruction with their lane blocking shenanigans.

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Horse
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Re: Lane closure due to roadworks

Postby Horse » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:57 am

FWIW, lower speed limits are very rarely used for temporary road works as a TTRO is needed - and they take a month to get.

And start leaving the closed lane at the start of the cone taper? Really, do you think that is wise? For typical 'relaxation' road works on 50mph or higher speed limit road, the taper will be 135m long, so not much distance before the HGV is too wide for the space remaining!
My own views. For better or worse :)

crr003
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Re: Lane closure due to roadworks

Postby crr003 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:34 am

Horse wrote:FWIW, lower speed limits are very rarely used for temporary road works as a TTRO is needed - and they take a month to get.

So someone puts up a red ringed sign without a TTRO, the population will think it's valid and most will comply. Only difference is there could be no valid prosecution for speeding? What about the safety of the road workers?
Anyway, in the OP's case that section of motorway has overhead gantries with legal variable speed limit signs.

Horse wrote:And start leaving the closed lane at the start of the cone taper? Really, do you think that is wise? For typical 'relaxation' road works on 50mph or higher speed limit road, the taper will be 135m long, so not much distance before the HGV is too wide for the space remaining!

See, this topic just annoys me.
People should have a certain amount of common courtesy and allow people to merge. Specifying distances is pointless. Some people think they're superior by getting into the open lane hundreds of yards before the merge and blocking people. If someone has decided for whatever reason to use the closed lane till the cones, let them in. It's hardly the end of the world. You should be leaving a gap anyway.

Sits and waits for the "well, if you were at the front of the queue at the till in Tesco/Asda/Waitrose and someone tried pushing in, you wouldn't allow that would you?" argument.

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Lane closure due to roadworks

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:53 pm

crr003 wrote:Sits and waits for the "well, if you were at the front of the queue at the till in Tesco/Asda/Waitrose and someone tried pushing in, you wouldn't allow that would you?" argument.

But there's a good analogy for that in the queues at, say, the self-service tills, where one queue forms, and then the first person in the queue goes to the next available till, or at large public events, where everybody knows that there will be a delay getting out, so they pick a queue and wait until it gets priority. Of course in the latter situation, there are always "queue hoppers", but they are generally in the minority.
Nick


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