Advanced Driving Hub

hir wrote:Agreed. "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the blind obedience of fools". (Solon, the First Lawmaker of Athens)

Also widely accredited to being used by Douglas Bader - who famously lost his legs in a plane crash while doing aerobatics against the rules . . .

GTR1400MAN wrote:Complete the overtake (back to your side) in one third of the distance to the limit point. You then have a third of the distance coming the other way for a vehicle appearing at speed from the limit point. That leaves a third in the middle as a safety margin.

As a car driver I find it useful to imagine either a more crazy me coming the other way or, worse, someone who really knows how to ride ... I guess I think in terms of returning before half-distance, no further, and earlier for comfort and increased margin.

GTR1400MAN wrote:Complete the overtake (back to your side) in one third of the distance to the limit point. You then have a third of the distance coming the other way for a vehicle appearing at speed from the limit point. That leaves a third in the middle as a safety margin.

Just checked JL's book. In two of the diagrams thirds are mentioned but it's not entirely clear how best to use them. One of the diagrams shows the overtaking sequence starting by positioning out then, when it's clear, accelerating to overtake in the first third of the clear distance.

AndyP wrote:May also be called Bananaring

If, by this, you mean accelerating while still in the following lane, then that's something entirely different. This was discussed in 2012, 2010 and 2007.

hir wrote:Nothing to do with overtaking.

OK. I'm not going mad. After some digging I now find numerous references in discussions on overtaking to this thought process / learning aid by Waremark on the old forum.

Waremark wrote:I say you should generally plan to be in by one-third of the distance you can see to be clear - one-third for the distance you will travel, one-third for the distance the person just out sight and coming towards you will travel, and one-third as a margin of safety and in case the one towards is going faster than you.

I've also found that David Heath from the IAM has been including it in his lectures on Overtaking while travelling around local groups, though I can find no slides or documents.

GTR1400MAN wrote:

hir wrote:Nothing to do with overtaking.

OK. I'm not going mad. After some digging I now find numerous references in discussions on overtaking to this thought process / learning aid by Waremark on the old forum.

Waremark wrote:I say you should generally plan to be in by one-third of the distance you can see to be clear - one-third for the distance you will travel, one-third for the distance the person just out sight and coming towards you will travel, and one-third as a margin of safety and in case the one towards is going faster than you.

I don't think that Waremark is here referring to the generally accepted understanding of the "rule of thirds", which has been expounded upon earlier. He's simply saying, as Gareth has already said, that one should aim to have completed one's overtake within one third of the distance seen to be clear. This is just another take on my "overtaking rule" that one MUST be able to complete the overtake in less than half the distance seen to be clear, and vonhosens' "rule" that in certain circumstances one may allow 51% of the clear space for the completion of the overtake.

i like to think (as above) in terms of three for overtaking but that doesn't mean thirds:
- my space
- oncomer's space
- contingency

or alternative view is 3.0litre plus and just put your foot down!

Alasdair

Yes John Lyon taught me the term for accelerate, maintain speed, slow. But I also use it and talk about it for overtaking. Back in after a tight overtake within one third, pat myself on the back, got that one right. Or not!

PS posted mine before seeing the quote of my post from the old place.

AndyP wrote:May also be called Bananaring

... or "the Surrey swoop".