Rule of Thirds - Overtaking

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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GTR1400MAN
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Rule of Thirds - Overtaking

Postby GTR1400MAN » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:20 pm

Does anyone know the history of this?

Where did it originate from?

Anyone got any links to online articles about it?

Any books with it in?

I made reference to it in a report I wrote and nobody had heard of it.
Mike Roberts

MrToad
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Re: Rule of Thirds - Overtaking

Postby MrToad » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:43 pm

I've not heard of thirds in relation to overtaking - could you elaborate?

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AndyP
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Re: Rule of Thirds - Overtaking

Postby AndyP » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:45 pm

Sounds like an HPC John Lyon era thing.
I used to call it the rule of the triangle.

May also be called Bananaring

I use the rule of thirds more for progress between bends.
Accelerate firmly for third, cruise for a third ease off and or brake over a third.?
For Masters or Advanced Police. Accelerate firmly for to thirds, brake for a third
It is not WHAT you drive, BUT:-- the WAY that you drive it.
It is not HOW fast you drive, BUT:-- HOW you drive fast.

Cheers Andy

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Rule of Thirds - Overtaking

Postby GTR1400MAN » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:32 pm

MrToad wrote:I've not heard of thirds in relation to overtaking - could you elaborate?

Rule of thirds.

Complete the overtake (back to your side) in one third of the distance to the limit point. You then have a third of the distance coming the other way for a vehicle appearing at speed from the limit point. That leaves a third in the middle as a safety margin. 

Not sure where it comes from but is a great way to explain overtakes where drivers/riders are only getting back to their side just in time for the corner,  crest or limit point.
Mike Roberts

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Horse
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Re: Rule of Thirds - Overtaking

Postby Horse » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:46 pm

I've only heard of 'thirds' in the context of using the 'view' ahead:
1 Accelerate 2 Constant 3 Braking

I didn't get along with it - didn't like the focus seeming to be to ignore the mid-ground.

AFAIK it may have originated from the Thames Valley driving school.
My own views. For better or worse :)

hir
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Re: Rule of Thirds - Overtaking

Postby hir » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:28 pm

Horse wrote:I've only heard of 'thirds' in the context of using the 'view' ahead:
1 Accelerate 2 Constant 3 Braking

I didn't get along with it - didn't like the focus seeming to be to ignore the mid-ground.



It's the above, as explained by Horse. Nothing to do with overtaking.

To elaborate just a little:

Firstly, "thirds" is a misnomer. If I divide something, anything, [eg. the road ahead], into thirds, I end up with three equal parts. That's not how it works. As you come off a bend you assess the straight piece of road ahead and mentally divide it into three discrete and distinct segments or phases, not necessarily of equal length, you immediately plan what you are going to do with each of these three segments/phases of road... then:

1. Accelerate: Use the first segment to briskly accelerate up to the safe, appropriate speed for this piece of road...

2. Constant: Use the middle segment to maintain speed whilst actively refining your driving plan for the bend which you will inevitably find at the end of the third segment...

3. Braking: I would prefer to characterise this as "dealing with the bend". It may necessitate braking; it may be sufficient to lift-off and then accelerate as the limit point begins to move through the bend and away from you. In essence the third phase is dealing with the bend for which you have given yourself time to plan during phase 2.

The real advantage of using the "thirds", or "three phase" rule is that it allows you time to consider and plan for the bend at which you are shortly going to arrive. If applied accurately it can make the flow of the drive much smoother. In my experience most drivers who don't use this approach will often stay on the power right up until the last second before the bend and then try and sort the bend out whilst transitioning through the apex. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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AndyP
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Re: Rule of Thirds - Overtaking

Postby AndyP » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:46 pm

Yes as I mentioned in first post.

It is related to progressive driving. Dividing the road ahead between bends into thirds.
I teach this all the time.
It is another HPC John Lyon era technique.
:car:
I have the coloured graphic/handout.
It is not WHAT you drive, BUT:-- the WAY that you drive it.
It is not HOW fast you drive, BUT:-- HOW you drive fast.

Cheers Andy

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Rule of Thirds - Overtaking

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:54 pm

As hir said, the thirds may not be equal. It may also be dangerous to accelerate briskly for even one third of a short straight in a powerful car. It's a rule of thumb, not a system. I've never heard of it used in connection with overtaking (I have heard half the distance mentioned, but that does depend on any oncomer not travelling at warp factor 9).
Nick

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Horse
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Re: Rule of Thirds - Overtaking

Postby Horse » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:09 pm

Putting my arty hat on, you may have heard the 'rule of thirds' as a way of composing pictures (your camera may evenhave a grid overlay in the viewfinder). The idea is to, for example, align the horizon with a line or put the subject onthe point where two lines cross.

Similar to driving, it's not a rule :)

However, there's a better way: instead of using a 3:6 ratio, use 5:8. It's known as the Golden Section and dates back to ancient times ;) Or not - sometimes rules should be broken.
My own views. For better or worse :)

hir
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Re: Rule of Thirds - Overtaking

Postby hir » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:32 pm

Horse wrote:Putting my arty hat on, you may have heard the 'rule of thirds' as a way of composing pictures (your camera may evenhave a grid overlay in the viewfinder). The idea is to, for example, align the horizon with a line or put the subject onthe point where two lines cross.

Similar to driving, it's not a rule :)

However, there's a better way: instead of using a 3:6 ratio, use 5:8. It's known as the Golden Section and dates back to ancient times ;) Or not - sometimes rules should be broken.



Agreed. "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, and the blind obedience of fools". (Solon, the First Lawmaker of Athens)

.


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