Driving with DSG

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
devonutopia
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Driving with DSG

Postby devonutopia » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:59 pm

For a little while I will be driving a DSG car - Audi A3 2.0 TDI.

It was a cheap project I picked up for £400 and spent another £300 on repairs to get through MOT. So I figured I might as well use it, especially as I have very little experience of DSG (A bit of normal auto use only)

Currently the only slight bonus I have found is when wishing to retard speed downhill, it is quite easy to flick down a couple of gears (whilst in a straight line) to give a little more engine braking. The downside of this I have found is once a manouvere / corner is completed, it doesn't switch back to normal "D" driving for a fair period.

Any other useful tips from regular DSG users, please? :racing: <---- That's DSG isn't it? Sort of?! Unlike >>> :gear:

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Driving with DSG

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:11 pm

Do you have to switch to manual to do this?

In my Renault EDC (Efficient Dual Clutch ... marketing!) if I flick down a gear or two for a descent it will only hold that for around 5-6 seconds then revert to full auto. Instead I move to manual and pick the gear I want for the descent and then switch back to full auto when complete.

I sometimes use the flick down, while still in full auto, just before the NSL sign. This prevents having to use kick down, as that requires significant pedal movement and can be far from subtle.
Mike Roberts

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angus
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Location: Colchester - Oldest Town, oldest roads

Re: Driving with DSG

Postby angus » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:36 pm

Sometimes these gearboxes have a mind of their own (or "have adapted to the driver's style")

Experience with a Golf VR6 and a Jaguar XE (not a DSG but the same applied) showed there was no obvious link between overriding the gearbox and it switching back to full auto. (unless in sport mode, when it wouldn't switch back to auto)

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Driving with DSG

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:10 pm

There's a lot of confusion out there about these transmissions "learning". As far as I can establish they do learn, but not about the driver's style. What they do learn are the bite points and slip levels of the two clutches and make minute changes to the timing of the activation and release of each clutch.

Your speed, your current throttle position and the speed with which you change that position, or any braking, DO affect how the transmission 'decides' on the next gear and how soon to make that change. That though is a point in time 'decision'
Mike Roberts

devonutopia
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Re: Driving with DSG

Postby devonutopia » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:22 am

GTR1400MAN wrote:Do you have to switch to manual to do this?

In my Renault EDC (Efficient Dual Clutch ... marketing!) if I flick down a gear or two for a descent it will only hold that for around 5-6 seconds then revert to full auto. Instead I move to manual and pick the gear I want for the descent and then switch back to full auto when complete.

I sometimes use the flick down, while still in full auto, just before the NSL sign. This prevents having to use kick down, as that requires significant pedal movement and can be far from subtle.


There is no "manual" adjustment on it. Just the usual auto lever positions but with a sport mode too. You can be driving along and at any time flick a paddle and it will change. In "normal" driving the dash has a P R N D S light with D usually lit up. Once you flick a DSG paddle, that immediately becomes a 1 to 6 row with your gear lit up, and will change as you change. It's a fair period of time before it goes back to P R N D S. :car:

waremark
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Re: Driving with DSG

Postby waremark » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:36 am

devonutopia wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote:Do you have to switch to manual to do this?

In my Renault EDC (Efficient Dual Clutch ... marketing!) if I flick down a gear or two for a descent it will only hold that for around 5-6 seconds then revert to full auto. Instead I move to manual and pick the gear I want for the descent and then switch back to full auto when complete.

I sometimes use the flick down, while still in full auto, just before the NSL sign. This prevents having to use kick down, as that requires significant pedal movement and can be far from subtle.


There is no "manual" adjustment on it. Just the usual auto lever positions but with a sport mode too. You can be driving along and at any time flick a paddle and it will change. In "normal" driving the dash has a P R N D S light with D usually lit up. Once you flick a DSG paddle, that immediately becomes a 1 to 6 row with your gear lit up, and will change as you change. It's a fair period of time before it goes back to P R N D S. :car:

Does it not have a full manual mode from which it will not go back to D? In some cars this would be engaged by using a paddle when in Sport, in others by moving the lever either left or right.

Ones which go back to D of their own accord seem to hold the gear as long as they guess you want it - for example until you finish going downhill. They then wait a bit and then revert to D. This doesn't work for getting ready to overtake, where your want to hold the lower gear until the view opens and you are ready to accelerate. They will go back to D just before you are ready to overtake!

waremark
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Re: Driving with DSG

Postby waremark » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:38 am

PS if in manual you can generally go back to D by pulling and holding the right hand paddle.

I generally use manual or D, not sport D and not using a paddle where it is going to revert to D when it chooses - I want to go back to D when I choose.

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jont-
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Re: Driving with DSG

Postby jont- » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:32 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:There's a lot of confusion out there about these transmissions "learning". As far as I can establish they do learn, but not about the driver's style. What they do learn are the bite points and slip levels of the two clutches and make minute changes to the timing of the activation and release of each clutch.'

Or maybe they do learn....
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/vw-a ... -behavior/
Apart from the cheating aspect "The automaker also told Reuters that its adaptive transmission software is meant to change shift points in order to improve on-road performance. Many automatic transmissions these days learn from driver input and tailor shifting to match a driver's style, which leads to a smoother drive"

waremark
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Re: Driving with DSG

Postby waremark » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:10 pm

jont- wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote:There's a lot of confusion out there about these transmissions "learning". As far as I can establish they do learn, but not about the driver's style. What they do learn are the bite points and slip levels of the two clutches and make minute changes to the timing of the activation and release of each clutch.'

Or maybe they do learn....
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/vw-a ... -behavior/
Apart from the cheating aspect "The automaker also told Reuters that its adaptive transmission software is meant to change shift points in order to improve on-road performance. Many automatic transmissions these days learn from driver input and tailor shifting to match a driver's style, which leads to a smoother drive"

This idea of matching a driver's style is stupid IMO (and why on earth it could be expected to lead to a smoother drive ...) I want my gearbox to behave in a predictable way so I know what to do with the throttle to get the gearbox to do what I want.

My 'style' changes in a moment when I get out of suburban traffic. The last thing I want is for my gearbox to behave in a different way from the way it behaved last time.

My solution is to use manual holds when I want to drive in a slightly spirited style.

devonutopia
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Re: Driving with DSG

Postby devonutopia » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:27 pm

waremark wrote:PS if in manual you can generally go back to D by pulling and holding the right hand paddle.

I generally use manual or D, not sport D and not using a paddle where it is going to revert to D when it chooses - I want to go back to D when I choose.


I didn't know this - Can you tell I've not driven DSG before?! :headbang: I will test this theory tonight :car:

There's not a full manual "never go back to PRNDS" setting that I have found yet, although haven't used sport mode masses so not sure how it behaves. I just thought it held revs longer, that's all.


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