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Re: Explaining and developing gear selection with a 'student'.
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:50 pm
by Adamxck
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote: it's great that your friend trusts you with her development.
She doesn't know any better
Re: Explaining and developing gear selection with a 'student'.
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:13 pm
by fungus
GTR1400MAN wrote:Ummm, if she is a complete learner shouldn't she be being taught to get in as high a gear as possible, as soon as possible?
Not my learners. Depending on circumstance, for instance accelerating up hill, I encourage them to use the revs. My Fiesta will not pull up hill at anything under 3500rpm. I let them take it up to 5000rpm before changing up, and then only if the engine will continue to accelerate. As one of our local DVSA examiners said off the record, "I blame this eco driving for the pathetic progress made by some candidates. They are encouraged to get into the high gears far too early."
Nigel.
Re: Explaining and developing gear selection with a 'student'.
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:22 pm
by fungus
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:I generally use responsiveness of the car as the illustration. Just pick a speed on a nice empty bit of road and try it in different gears. For each gear:
- If the student understands the purpose of their rev counter, note the RPM.
- does the engine feel "happy"? (is it screaming, buzzing, chugging?)
- Is there a lot of noise? (does that diminish with a higher gear?)
- If you squeeze the throttle firmly, does the car respond immediately? (if no, does that work better with a lower gear? If yes, try a higher gear. Does it still respond?)
- Now note the engine RPM again once you've found the "sweet spot". For petrol, this will be 2000-2500 RPM. For diesel, perhaps 1500-2000 (just a rule of thumb, find the right revs in her car).
- Now do the same going uphill / downhill. What's the difference? Once the sweet spot has been found on the flat, this should be a much shorter exercise.
Then suggest the old chestnut mnemonic - 3rd for 30, 4th for 40, etc. and see if that works. It usually does.
Her quote is not wrong. The torque required to turn the wheels increases as the wheel speed decreases. It might not be verbatim from Roadcraft, but it's a fair point. Which edition of Roadcraft is she using? I couldn't find wording like this in the 2013 edition.
This is what I do with learners once they have mastered the basics of clutch control, gear changing, braking etc.
If they have bicycle experience I use that to help them understand the relationship between gears and engine power. It is simple for them to understand, and they seem to grasp the concept using the effort that they have to put in when in too high a gear.
Nigel.
Re: Explaining and developing gear selection with a 'student'.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:52 am
by superplum
Adamxck wrote: I'm merely a driving enthusiast trying to teach my friend how to drive like I do. (For better or worse!)
I think roadcraft gives a solid foundation from which to work, so I gave her it to read. No strong affiliation to any particular method or 'lot'.
I have no desire to do observing or tutoring officially. One padawan is enough for me. I like the informal nature of it.
A praiseworthy ambition but, just to clarify your situation, are you an "advanced driver" and, if so, by what qualification?
Re: Explaining and developing gear selection with a 'student'.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:04 pm
by Horse
Wrong question, surely? Shouldn't you ask about teaching/coaching ability? Some subject experts can't pass on that knowledge, let alone help others to improve.
Re: Explaining and developing gear selection with a 'student'.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:45 pm
by Adamxck
I'm a terrible coach and a worse driver, but she is improving and enjoying her 'lessons'. That's all that matters.
Re: Explaining and developing gear selection with a 'student'.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:50 pm
by Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
Adamxck wrote:I'm a terrible coach and a worse driver...
I'll vouch for that!
Re: Explaining and developing gear selection with a 'student'.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:18 pm
by Horse
"Ok, I'm going to do a demonstration for you. Then you do the opposite. "
Re: Explaining and developing gear selection with a 'student'.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:05 pm
by superplum
Horse wrote:Wrong question, surely? Shouldn't you ask about teaching/coaching ability? Some subject experts can't pass on that knowledge, let alone help others to improve.
No, it was a valid question. I accept your point about some experts; however, there are a lot of "non-experts" out there who can provide sound and effective training - often supported by their personal experience.
Re: Explaining and developing gear selection with a 'student'.
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:30 pm
by Gareth
superplum wrote:are you an "advanced driver" and, if so, by what qualification?
Does passing an advanced driving test make someone an 'advanced' driver?
Surely, in the long run, it's more about attitude than anything else.