Is AD 'better driving'?

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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akirk
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Is AD 'better driving'?

Postby akirk » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:11 pm

A few discussions recently seem to me to come together...
- do others understand the value of advanced driving> if not, why not?
- what is the incentive to be an AD
- autonomous cars

started to make me think about whether advanced driving is really better driving?
I think there is clarity over it being more advanced (technically more competent / etc.) but is it better for society... e.g. consider this scenario:

little old lady bumbling along the road in a NSL at 40mph - Jo Average comes up behind and not being a boy racer and not liking overtaking (i.e. the vast majority of the population), sits there until little old lady turns off...

or

little old lady bumbling along in the same way and an AD comes up behind - likes and is good at overtaking, so at the appropriate point goes past, little old lady swoons at the ungentlemanly manner in which someone is making progress and drives into the ditch...

from a societal point of view - which is better?
is it possible that fitting in with the norm is better than standing out, even if the differentiator is excellence?
there aren't many skill sets where those who are excellent and at the top of their game still continue within the framework of joe public and average skills (the professional footballer doesn't mix with the local park side / the top soloist violinist doesn't play with the school orchestra etc.) yet top technical and advanced drivers have to continue their driving within the context of the societal norm, or amongst those who are not just average / below average / etc. but who may not understand advanced driving and whose own driving could deteriorate as a result...

random thoughts, but the nail that stands out can cause issues - a pursuit of excellence in driving may not always make those people fit into society any better...

Alasdair

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jont-
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Re: Is AD 'better driving'?

Postby jont- » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:12 pm

akirk wrote:little old lady bumbling along in the same way and an AD comes up behind - likes and is good at overtaking, so at the appropriate point goes past, little old lady swoons at the ungentlemanly manner in which someone is making progress and drives into the ditch...

This one, especially if she doesn't survive. Old lady is no longer a burden on the health service and no longer stealing time from people stuck behind her and incapable of overtaking.

/insensitive.

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Horse
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Re: Is AD 'better driving'?

Postby Horse » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:23 pm

Some of the uk's good orchestras do outreach in schools.
My own views. For better or worse :)

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superplum
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Re: Is AD 'better driving'?

Postby superplum » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:58 pm

akirk wrote:A few discussions recently seem to me to come together...
- do others understand the value of advanced driving> if not, why not?
- what is the incentive to be an AD
- autonomous cars........random thoughts, but the nail that stands out can cause issues - a pursuit of excellence in driving may not always make those people fit into society any better...

Alasdair


Two more random thoughts:

"a pursuit of excellence in driving may not always make those people fit into society any better..."; perhaps they should fit above society!

"Autonomous cars"; should we have a topic for autonomous cars with no drivers' inputs?

:lol:

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Horse
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Re: Is AD 'better driving'?

Postby Horse » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:49 am

Horse wrote:Some of the uk's good orchestras do outreach in schools.


News just in: Members of the Household Cavalry band are coming to play with two of our local groups.
My own views. For better or worse :)

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akirk
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Re: Is AD 'better driving'?

Postby akirk » Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:08 am

true - musicians might go into schools - in the same way that advanced drivers might help the Under 17 club - but professional musicians don't run their professional life playing in an orchestra where they are part of the 1% of highly qualified players, with the rest made up of a mixture of competent / average / below competent! :D

the concept of overtaking is one which fits this discussion well - it is not taught in the driving test, it seems it is not as encouraged now in IAM / RoSPA - are we moving to a situation where society basically disapproves of overtaking - it might even be banned one day... for now though, while it is one of the trickier moves, as an advanced driver it is very satisfying to get it right - to be smooth, elegant and effective - but if the person overtaking doesn't get it / worries / flashes their lights at you / etc. does that mean that as advanced drivers we are potentially reducing overall safety due to the worries of another driver?

(and Jon, I am not sure that general 'baddrivericide' is acceptable :))

Alasdair

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jont-
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Re: Is AD 'better driving'?

Postby jont- » Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:01 am

akirk wrote:(and Jon, I am not sure that general 'baddrivericide' is acceptable :))

Start with people using hand held mobiles. Particularly when they have a passenger sat next to them.

Why are we trying to build our way out of road congestion rather than get people off the roads who don't want to be there anyway?

Astraist
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Re: Is AD 'better driving'?

Postby Astraist » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:19 pm

I think Advanced Driving should in times be made to appear sociable. For instance, AD logic would dictate that a signal is not needed when another driver isn't in a position to benefit from it. However, since drivers are taught to signal out of habit, they might view this as bad driving, which is why I would still give a token signal.

Another example is Offsiding. AD logic dictates that, given good vision and a clear road, several lanes (irregardless for the direction of traffic) can be stitched together to extend both the radius of the corner and the field of vision. However, other drivers who are taught dogmatically to keep to their lane would misinterpret this habit and so I never do this unless the road around me is deserted.

To apply that to overtaking, if an overtake is executed within a section of clear road which is long enough to safely overtake, but still so short as to give the impression to others that the overtake is rushed - it's probably not a good idea to overtake.

Also, the habit of closing into an overtaking position that is closer to the overtaken car than the normal following distance is to be avoided.

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akirk
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Re: Is AD 'better driving'?

Postby akirk » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:39 pm

Astraist, that does sound a good approach - however I think that particularly with overtaking there is an increasing tendency to see it as illegal / wrong / dangerous because people just do not understand it... I overtook a car recently on a very long straight with clear vision / no field entrances or turnings etc. - there were cars coming at the other end of that road, once I was back in past the car I overtook it was c. another 15-20 seconds before the cars coming the other way and I passed each other - so probably 1/2 a mile of clear road - no safety issues at all - yet the car I was overtaking took umbrage - and this is not uncommon, there are people who will drive around the local area at 40mph but if you overtake them, however safely you are honked / flashed / etc. Perhaps the AD world needs to work on raising awareness of what is / isn't safe because I think for many drivers they no longer have it in balance...

Alasdair

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Horse
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Re: Is AD 'better driving'?

Postby Horse » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:04 pm

Motorcyclists often 'suffer' from that lack of understanding - I know I'm not the only rider to be flashed by an oncoming vehicle . . . while I'm already safely returned to 'my' side of the road. Occasionally there's even been enough time after their flash that I've given them a wave before they pass . . .

That said, some motorcyclists ain't that good at overtaking and suffer as a result :(
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