Looking after cyclists

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
Smeeagain
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Re: Looking after cyclists

Postby Smeeagain » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:24 am

Speaking as someone who both drives and cycles (and I think perhaps some of you from reading the posts do also), and as someone who has had two fractures of the spine as a result of a van colliding with me, whilst I was cycling, I do think that this is a great initiative and that more could/should be done to raise awareness. Yes I'm biased because Ive been hit but at least I have my life unlike many others (in particular Im thinking of some of the cyclists who've lost their lives when vehicles turn left on top of them on London in the last year or two).

And I'll be the first to say there are bad cyclists - and years ago I was one of them and did stupid things, but I hold a (personal) belief that actually the good cyclists outnumber the bad cyclists (I think).

I think that it would be good to incorporate some form of cycling/car interaction on a test (whether that be learner or advanced), perhaps off road, hard surface type of thing. I don't know how it would work and I don't know the mechanics/ins/outs/if its workable, but if you have cycled, in modern times, in busy traffic or with close passes it can be extremely daunting. I guess the point Im trying to make is that you can't really judge how the cyclist feels til you are on the receiving end.
Just something anything that gives the driver a better perspective of what the cyclist sees/feels (and Yes I know some may say that then means we've all got to drive ever other type of vehicle, but I wasn't meaning that I just mean that the cyclist is (probably) the most vulnerable in terms of protection from other vehicles.

But the highway in itself isn't cycle friendly - there aren't enough cycle lanes which I'd prefer to see, and they could potentially be managed by camera technology as bus lanes are, but it all costs money, she raids aren't wide enough etc etc etc - all easier said than done

As I cyclist I don't personally have too much of an issue with close passing as long as it's relatively low speed (i.e. Im not hit with jet fighter type downdraft or F1 turbulence as the vehicle passes), and that the driver holds their line and doesn't cut in. On that basis you can come within an inch of me if you like - but then Ive done road cycle racing and track cycling and conformable with folk being in and around my 'space' even at high speed

When I was young and brave (latin for daft). I cycled from Glasgow to Kilmarnock. its about 30 miles down the A77 with national speed limit in places of 70. Two lane dual carriageway, with no cycle lane, with vehicles passing at 70 (and more). I thought I had sufficiently large kahunas, but I wouldn't do that journey again. As you might imagine, it was somewhat akin to riding a bicycle on motorway, but there are cyclists out there who would or simply find that that is a particular route they need to use

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Horse
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Re: Looking after cyclists

Postby Horse » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:49 am

GTR1400MAN wrote:The cars coming towards you overtaking a cyclist is something we always cover with m/c associates. If you think it is bad for you as a car driver then it is horrendous on a motorbike. The car/lorry/van coming towards you WILL overtake the cycle and you need to be ready for it. Sometimes commanding your piece of the road works but most of the time you have to yield and end up with a motorcycle car cycle sandwich! :(


Or see the opposing cyclist, expect the possibility of an encroaching vehicle, so slow down a bit to avoid the three-abreast situation? ;)
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Looking after cyclists

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:26 pm

It's an option Horse but not always possible with following traffic. Also if you just yield or back off every time, you just encourage them to do it even more. Also yielding early or slowing may give them 'body language'/subliminal signal to 'come on through'.

There's always a fine line as motorcyclist of being in control of your ride and road space, and being continually bullied to move.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

Rolyan
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Re: Looking after cyclists

Postby Rolyan » Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:52 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Yes, there are bad cyclists.

Yes, there may be other priorities (not sure I can think what's higher on the list except probably drink / drug driving, but this is just one campaign, they didn't say this is all they're doing).

I just thought it was worthy of note.

It's definitely worthy of note, but the more I think about it the more I think it's possibly a local issue.

Come to my city centre and drive regularly; the main issues are not poor overtaking of cyclist. There is everything from extreme inappropriate speed, aggressive driving, queue jumping, tailgating, failure to obey signs/lights, texting/use of social media when driving, uninsured drivers etc etc etc. Yes, even foolish and unskilled cycling. All of which I consider requires a higher priority than poor overtaking of cyclists.

Until the day that there is enough time and money to address everything, then we have to prioritise. So if I saw my taxes etc paying for this, I would genuinely and sincerely ask why it was not being spent on any of the issues above.

Targeting this issue may be easy but I remain unconvinced it's the best use of a limited resource in improving road safety.

sussex2
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Re: Looking after cyclists

Postby sussex2 » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:25 pm

Rolyan wrote:
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Yes, there are bad cyclists.

Yes, there may be other priorities (not sure I can think what's higher on the list except probably drink / drug driving, but this is just one campaign, they didn't say this is all they're doing).

I just thought it was worthy of note.

It's definitely worthy of note, but the more I think about it the more I think it's possibly a local issue.

Come to my city centre and drive regularly; the main issues are not poor overtaking of cyclist. There is everything from extreme inappropriate speed, aggressive driving, queue jumping, tailgating, failure to obey signs/lights, texting/use of social media when driving, uninsured drivers etc etc etc. Yes, even foolish and unskilled cycling. All of which I consider requires a higher priority than poor overtaking of cyclists.

Until the day that there is enough time and money to address everything, then we have to prioritise. So if I saw my taxes etc paying for this, I would genuinely and sincerely ask why it was not being spent on any of the issues above.

Targeting this issue may be easy but I remain unconvinced it's the best use of a limited resource in improving road safety.


I have a pet theory that much poor behaviour has roots in insecurity. It's nothing more than a theory of my own based on observation over a long period of time.
There's no reason for that to be any different on the road than elsewhere.

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Looking after cyclists

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:40 pm

Rolyan wrote:There is everything from extreme inappropriate speed, aggressive driving, queue jumping, tailgating, failure to obey signs/lights, texting/use of social media when driving, uninsured drivers etc etc etc. Yes, even foolish and unskilled cycling. All of which I consider requires a higher priority than poor overtaking of cyclists.

Until the day that there is enough time and money to address everything, then we have to prioritise. So if I saw my taxes etc paying for this, I would genuinely and sincerely ask why it was not being spent on any of the issues above.

Targeting this issue may be easy but I remain unconvinced it's the best use of a limited resource in improving road safety.

So of your list above, which ones directly endanger life, like overtaking at speed, too close to a cyclist? I take it you don't cycle ...
Nick

Rolyan
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Re: Looking after cyclists

Postby Rolyan » Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:18 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:
Rolyan wrote:There is everything from extreme inappropriate speed, aggressive driving, queue jumping, tailgating, failure to obey signs/lights, texting/use of social media when driving, uninsured drivers etc etc etc. Yes, even foolish and unskilled cycling. All of which I consider requires a higher priority than poor overtaking of cyclists.

Until the day that there is enough time and money to address everything, then we have to prioritise. So if I saw my taxes etc paying for this, I would genuinely and sincerely ask why it was not being spent on any of the issues above.

Targeting this issue may be easy but I remain unconvinced it's the best use of a limited resource in improving road safety.

So of your list above, which ones directly endanger life, like overtaking at speed, too close to a cyclist? I take it you don't cycle ...

Most of them directly endanger life on a daily basis. In my experience, IN MY LOCALITY, they are all more prevalent and more dangerous than the overtakes that I see on cyclists. In addition, Hopefully without getting into a them and us situation, I regularly see cyclists putting themselves in more danger than they receive from motorists. But the biggest threat to safety comes from the situations I've described.

I fully accept that I don't cycle, so cannot see it from your perspective, although I do try and be empathetic. I'm just giving you my opinion on what I see on the roads day in and day out. I don't witness that many poor overtakes, and I've not seen the evidence of the number of cyclists KSI as a result of cars overtaking too close. But I do see the dangers every day without fail in the situations I've described. Since there is clearly not enough money and commitment to deal with all issues, I would like to see them prioritised based on risk. Being as objective as possible, the highest risk does not belong to poor overtakes on cyclists.

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akirk
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Re: Looking after cyclists

Postby akirk » Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:52 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:It's an option Horse but not always possible with following traffic. Also if you just yield or back off every time, you just encourage them to do it even more. Also yielding early or slowing may give them 'body language'/subliminal signal to 'come on through'.

There's always a fine line as motorcyclist of being in control of your ride and road space, and being continually bullied to move.


Exactly, which is why I move into the middle of the road that passes over a non-subtle non-subliminal message 'don't overtake' using road position to control how other traffic behaves is a key element of advanced driving

Alasdair

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EasyShifter
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Re: Looking after cyclists

Postby EasyShifter » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:07 pm

There are some roads near me - some of my regular rat-runs - where a combination of bends and undulations means that one can be stuck behind a cyclist for quite some time before coming to a place where it is safe to overtake with a good margin. I do believe it's important to allow adequate space - in my observing days,I once had a cyclist fall off in front of an associate. No harm was done and it was a good educational experience for the associate. So I wait for a safe stretch to do the overtake with a good margin. IN reality it is probably only a matter of seconds, or maybe a minute but it does feel like a long time while it is happening, and I understand the frustration of drivers behind me. However, if the alternative is for the cyclist to have perhaps a number of cars squeezing past to avoid crossing the line, then I think it's time well spent.
Michael

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Looking after cyclists

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:08 pm

akirk wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote:It's an option Horse but not always possible with following traffic. Also if you just yield or back off every time, you just encourage them to do it even more. Also yielding early or slowing may give them 'body language'/subliminal signal to 'come on through'.

There's always a fine line as motorcyclist of being in control of your ride and road space, and being continually bullied to move.


Exactly, which is why I move into the middle of the road that passes over a non-subtle non-subliminal message 'don't overtake' using road position to control how other traffic behaves is a key element of advanced driving

Alasdair

It's just a lot easier Alasdair when driving in a nice tin box with crumple zones round me, than on the motorbike! I do 'command my piece of the road' on my motorcycle but you have to know when not to turn it into a game of:

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Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube


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