Advanced Driving Hub

Horse wrote:

Rolyan wrote: Copies of googled case law, ill informed opinions and a blind belief in a better world doesn't change that.

But but but . . . this is the Internet!

and

Strangely Brown wrote:userLeft1 yesterday...

Horse wrote:Was there ever agreement [here] that the toots the OP heard were the coper changing the siren, rather than using the horn to: show annoyance/frustration, indicate the presence of the police vehicle, issue a command (i.e. give a direction for the OP to move forwards), wake the OP from his slumbers . . . ?

I've tried and given up! Several posts by me including a video of the toot toot in action. In depth discussion about laws is the order of the day. I'd lay good money the copper was doing just what was expected of him and sorting the horns out. Once the OP moved forward he continued on his way.

Round here the issue is more that emergency vehicles don't use their sirens enough ... due to complaints from the locals of the noise.

The ADUK thread included a link to advice from Hendon, posted by vonhosen who also showed great prescience in explaining that userLeft1's advice is hokum

So my list now expands to Police Advanced Drivers, the Courts, Local Councils, enforcement agencies, ACPO, blue light aware, ask the police and finally the great and revered Von Hosen.

According to userLeft1, all of them are wrong.

Bless.

GTR1400MAN wrote:

Horse wrote:Was there ever agreement [here] that the toots the OP heard were the coper changing the siren, rather than using the horn to: show annoyance/frustration, indicate the presence of the police vehicle, issue a command (i.e. give a direction for the OP to move forwards), wake the OP from his slumbers . . . ?

I've tried and given up! Several posts by me including a video of the toot toot in action. In depth discussion about laws is the order of the day. I'd lay good money the copper was doing just what was expected of him and sorting the horns out. Once the OP moved forward he continued on his way.

Round here the issue is more that emergency vehicles don't use their sirens enough ... due to complaints from the locals of the noise.

I think most of us noted and accepted your comments early on, but Moonbeams incorrect interpretation of the law is the contentious issue. He is offering false advice that is contradicted by those who do the prosecution.

Whether or not the horn was sounded out of irritation, or switching the sirens etc off, makes no difference. What matters is that the police car behind cannot force you to break the law and if you choose to do so then it is an offence.

There may be some newbies here that would take userLeft1's incorrect advice were we not on hand to show them his errors.

Gareth wrote:The ADUK thread included a link to advice from Hendon, posted by vonhosen who also showed great prescience in explaining that userLeft1's advice is hokum

Nothing inconsistent with what I have written here and vonhosen's advice on the statutory exemption. Here, as there, the common law rule in Johnson v Phillips adds to the legislation rather than giving an alternative view of it. Unless you can point to something I may have missed (regarding the common law , not the legislation).

By the way, I would not interpret a toot of the horn as an instruction to get out of the way but if clearly instructed to do so would not obstruct an officer in the course of his duty knowing thst he had the power under the common law to instruct me to disobey a traffic regulation safely, that it is a defence to the red light offence and I would not be prosecuted and certainly not convicted.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/fined-driver-cleared-thanks-to-men-926523 - you, too, can get a fine overturned if you get the press involved.

It's an easier decision if it's an ambulance behind, as the following shows: http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/motorist-counting-cost-of-good-deed-1-2424839, although, of course, it's an entirely different situation

mainbeam wrote:By the way, I would not interpret a toot of the horn as an instruction to get out of the way but if clearly instructed to do so would not obstruct an officer in the course of his duty knowing thst he had the power under the common law to instruct me to disobey a traffic regulation safely, that it is a defence to the red light offence and I would not be prosecuted and certainly not convicted.

I think this is the point everyone has been making all along
If clearly instructed by a constable of course you would do as required, and it would be a valid defence in court...
but - that clear instruction will not and can not come from a constable in a car behind you as it is physically not possible for a constable in such a position to have a full grasp of the traffic situation and to therefore give safe / accurate instructions...

Alasdair