Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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Horse
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby Horse » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:43 pm

[Youtube]https://youtu.be/AqlL9nHiRYY[/youtube]

Sorry, posting from the tablet, so not easy to insert links.
My own views. For better or worse :)

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:03 pm


There you go (you just need the video code after the last slash).
Mike Roberts

WhoseGeneration
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby WhoseGeneration » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:20 pm

Ooh, I was on holiday when this started.
My view, don't move.
Politicians' actions have led to this sort of situation.
Let them take the rap for any result of your refusing to cross a red light.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:45 pm

A good example of what is being discussed, though ... :

A) there's loads of room for the Peugeot to ease forward and left without encroaching on the crossing. The driver jumped a couple of times and decided not to move, probably due to the peds continuing to amble across the road, oblivious of all around them.

B) the Police car could have continued a bit further and cut back to the correct side of the road after a couple of bits of raised divider.
Mike Roberts

waremark
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby waremark » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:47 pm

Horse wrote:[Youtube]https://youtu.be/AqlL9nHiRYY[/youtube]

Sorry, posting from the tablet, so not easy to insert links.

Not sure what I was seeing there. Did the police driver get out of his car to direct the Cayenne driver to cross the line against a red light? Is it officially released by the Met as an illustration of good practice?

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:53 pm

waremark wrote:Not sure what I was seeing there.

Obviously, it's a Pug! ;)
Mike Roberts

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Horse
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby Horse » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:23 am

waremark wrote:
Horse wrote:[Youtube]https://youtu.be/AqlL9nHiRYY[/youtube]

Sorry, posting from the tablet, so not easy to insert links.

Not sure what I was seeing there. Did the police driver get out of his car to direct the Cayenne driver to cross the line against a red light? Is it officially released by the Met as an illustration of good practice?


Your guess is as good as mine. AFAIK It's just a vid recorded by a random pedestrian.
My own views. For better or worse :)

mainbeam
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby mainbeam » Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:34 pm

akirk wrote:The explanations have been boringly repeated above...
Two main ones:
- a constable can not adequately determine from the driving seat of a car whether or not it is completely safe to instruct a motorist in front to cross a red light, so as per the case quoted above it is completely different to a constable instructing a motorist to reverse down a one way street when safety can be ascertained


You are still missing the point that the decision of what is safe is an objective fact. There is no legal rule that states a Police Officer must be in front of the vehicle to instruct a driver to move safely across a stop line. This is an opinion stated by 'vonhosen', apparently a Police driver and repeated by others as if it was an enactment. "Controlling traffic" has a more general meaning than "engaged in the direction of traffic". You are assuming they are the same. If they were then I should think the Court would use the language of the Statute rather than expressly stating it was not referring to the legislation in its judgement. There would have been no point to the case cited.

akirk wrote:
- evidence that common law is valid for one scenario has no bearing on a different scenario


Yes it does. Google "abstraction" in a legal dictionary or endure some legal training. ;)

akirk wrote:-safety could be managed in one, not the other


Your view but not a statement of the law.

akirk wrote:- police drivers are specifically trained not to do what you suggest they were doing


Not relevant to the law.


akirk wrote:You seem to be setting yourself up as being right despite everyone else posting the actual reality, and seem to be criticising the advanced driving community for not agreeing with you... presumably as you are so sure you are right, you don't consider yourself to be a part of that (very patient!) community... I am beginning to wonder why you signed up on here if you have no respect for that set of people?

Alasdair


Ultimately if a Police driver instructs a driver to move out of his way then most people would simply do as directed. Advanced drivers, certainly many posting here, assert that if in doing so a driver crosses the 'stop line' he commits an offence. This assertion is made simply by reference to legislation without any understanding of the wider law.

If you're instructed to "get out of the way!" then get out of the way provided it is safe to do so. No need for pages of discussion on an internet forum.

:)

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby Strangely Brown » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:24 pm


WhoseGeneration
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby WhoseGeneration » Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:31 pm

Obvious answer is obvious, do not move. "Safe" is a subjective opinion.


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