mainbeam wrote:By the way, I would not interpret a toot of the horn as an instruction to get out of the way but if clearly instructed to do so would not obstruct an officer in the course of his duty knowing thst he had the power under the common law to instruct me to disobey a traffic regulation safely, that it is a defence to the red light offence and I would not be prosecuted and certainly not convicted.
I think this is the point everyone has been making all along
Not quite as I can see no reason as to why an instruction to get out of the way cannot be made by the Police driver from behind.
akirk wrote:[If clearly instructed by a constable of course you would do as required, and it would be a valid defence in court...
but - that clear instruction will not and can not come from a constable in a car behind you as it is physically not possible for a constable in such a position to have a full grasp of the traffic situation and to therefore give safe / accurate instructions...
Apart from Gareth who appears to be well behind the curve we seem to be catching up with the point being made. I don't see any basis in the case law for the assertion that an instruction cannot be clear because the Police officer isn't in a position to have a full grasp of the traffic situation. It is also illogical. That would of course apply under the statutory defence of "being engaged in the direction of traffic" but there is nothing in the case law to support your view. (I note from the ADUK website that a Police officer posted a reference to the same case law as I have so at least one of them is aware of it):)
Although there is a duty to move out of the way of a Police officer when instructed to do so that duty only applies when it is safe to do so. There is nothing in the case law to prevent a Police officer from instructing a driver to move out of the way and the driver, quite lawfully, refusing because he is not satisfied that it is safe to do so. That is distinct from the driver refusing to move because he wrongly believes it is an offence to cross the line.
You appear to be twisting this into the instruction not being an instruction because the question as to safety cannot be ascertained by the Police officer from his position.
The Police driver may have to rely on your assessment of safety to some extent just as you will have to rely on his assessment that he is 'protecting life, limb or property'.
I might add that with advanced stop lines the situations in which a Police officer can have a sufficient view to assess the safety of crossing the line than are more frequent than may have previously been the case.