Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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akirk
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby akirk » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:02 pm

The explanations have been boringly repeated above...
Two main ones:
- a constable can not adequately determine from the driving seat of a car whether or not it is completely safe to instruct a motorist in front to cross a red light, so as per the case quoted above it is completely different to a constable instructing a motorist to reverse down a one way street when safety can be ascertained
- as has been mentioned many times, response drivers are specifically trained not to do this - as they can nor ensure safety, so they don't do it...

You are the only one here who seems certain the the driver was instructing the OP, everyone else seems doubtful... you are then using a different case to try and prove your point... but your logic is terribly flawed:
- evidence that common law is valid for one scenario has no bearing on a different scenario
-safety could be managed in one, not the other
- police drivers are specifically trained not to do what you suggest they were doing

Sorry your logic is completely up the spout, the likelihood is that the OP was not being directed to cross a red light, and if they had / did there is no evidence to suggest that a totally different case would be of any assistance in fighting a ticket!

You seem to be setting yourself up as being right despite everyone else posting the actual reality, and seem to be criticising the advanced driving community for not agreeing with you... presumably as you are so sure you are right, you don't consider yourself to be a part of that (very patient!) community... I am beginning to wonder why you signed up on here if you have no respect for that set of people?

Alasdair

Triquet
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby Triquet » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:23 am

Golly, is this thread still running? :confused:

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Horse
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby Horse » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:49 am

mainbeam wrote:
fungus wrote: Cross a stop line on a red light, no. It is an offence for any part of your vehicle to cross a stop line on a red light unless instructed to do so by a uniformed officer directing traffic..


Not necessarily. That's the point being made in Johnson v Phillips :)

As above. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

The advanced driving community's understanding of the law is limited to what it can read in the legislation which is published on the internet hence an incorrect and response by its members when confronted by a Police officer instructing them to move out of his way when in order to do so it is necessary to cross the 'stop' line at a red light and it is safe to do so.


"Yes M'lud, my client drove through the red light because a police officer tooted at him."

"And is that officer here to confirm that?"

"No, M'lud, he drove off."
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

Silk
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby Silk » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:21 pm

mainbeam wrote:The advanced driving community's understanding of the law is limited to what it can read in the legislation which is published on the internet hence an incorrect and response by its members when confronted by a Police officer instructing them to move out of his way when in order to do so it is necessary to cross the 'stop' line at a red light and it is safe to do so.


Here's my opinion, for what it's worth. :soap:

I always keep a good distance between myself and the car in front (as I'm sure does everyone on here), which allows more room to move over (most two lane roads have enough space for three abreast). If the road doesn't have the room, then crossing the line isn't going to be sufficient - I'm going to need to move into the path of the opposing traffic in order to clear the junction. I'm telling you now, that isn't going to happen short of plod ramming me. It's simply too dangerous. If PC Hornblower wants to take my number down and report me for an "offence", then I'll see him in court (with my dashcam footage).

I will not cross the line for anything less than the officer getting out of the car, bringing the opposing traffic to a halt and waving me through. By the time all this has happened, the lights will be green anyway.

As with the chevron thread, all we have to go on is the Highway Code and self-preservation. I simply don't have the time and inclination to go over case law going back to the time when The Sweeney was on the telly, before starting out on a journey.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby GTR1400MAN » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:16 pm

Silk wrote:I always keep a good distance between myself and the car in front (as I'm sure does everyone on here), which allows more room to move over (most two lane roads have enough space for three abreast). If the road doesn't have the room, then crossing the line isn't going to be sufficient - I'm going to need to move into the path of the opposing traffic in order to clear the junction. I'm telling you now, that isn't going to happen short of plod ramming me. It's simply too dangerous.

So how about in the OP's case (and many junctions these days) the stop line is many yards away from the opposing traffic/road, giving you plenty of room to ease forward safely. :twisted: ;)
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

Silk
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby Silk » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:25 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:
Silk wrote:I always keep a good distance between myself and the car in front (as I'm sure does everyone on here), which allows more room to move over (most two lane roads have enough space for three abreast). If the road doesn't have the room, then crossing the line isn't going to be sufficient - I'm going to need to move into the path of the opposing traffic in order to clear the junction. I'm telling you now, that isn't going to happen short of plod ramming me. It's simply too dangerous.

So how about in the OP's case (and many junctions these days) the stop line is many yards away from the opposing traffic/road, giving you plenty of room to ease forward safely. :twisted: ;)


You still need to go into the opposing traffic before you can clear the junction enough for plod to pass, unless you're telling me that the carriageway gets wider after the stop line. Did you not read what I wrote?

I recommend you go away, get a good night's sleep and have another go at me tomorrow, when you're head's not full of cotton wool. :nono: :lol:

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby GTR1400MAN » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:33 pm

Silk wrote:You still need to go into the opposing traffic before you can clear the junction enough for plod to pass, unless you're telling me that the carriageway gets wider after the stop line. Did you not read what I wrote?

I recommend you go away, get a good night's sleep and have another go at me tomorrow, when you're head's not full of cotton wool. :nono: :lol:

The OP's scenario was a ONE WAY STREET. View it here

Please keep up! :bash: :swords: :D
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

Silk
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby Silk » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:08 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:
Silk wrote:You still need to go into the opposing traffic before you can clear the junction enough for plod to pass, unless you're telling me that the carriageway gets wider after the stop line. Did you not read what I wrote?

I recommend you go away, get a good night's sleep and have another go at me tomorrow, when you're head's not full of cotton wool. :nono: :lol:

The OP's scenario was a ONE WAY STREET. View it here

Please keep up! :bash: :swords: :D


What's the problem? You can easily get three cars abreast on that road. It's all about maintaining space around your vehicle. Elementary stuff, even for a biker!

Rolyan
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby Rolyan » Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:51 pm

Triquet wrote:Golly, is this thread still running? :confused:

I do wonder what the different parties are getting out of it.

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superplum
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Re: Blues and Twos and Traffic Lights

Postby superplum » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:48 pm

Rolyan wrote:
Triquet wrote:Golly, is this thread still running? :confused:

I do wonder what the different parties are getting out of it.


More than me I suspect!


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