Just curious

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Smeeagain
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Just curious

Postby Smeeagain » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:39 pm

A couple of things I heard/read recently prompted a thought.

What are the credentials for becoming an IAM or RoSPA instructor?

I would have thought you had to be a driving instructor with some form of recognised qualification, but reading that they are volunteers I wondered if they werent all bona fide driving instructors??
Smee

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angus
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Re: Just curious

Postby angus » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:02 pm

By instructor, do you mean observer?

If so, a few are ADIs, but most are volunteers who have passed the relevant test and are putting something back into their group. The IAM now has a structure for becoming an observer, but when I wanted to become an observer (20 odd years ago), I waws told to do RoSPA and if I got gold I could be one.

They are observers because they DO NOT INSTRUCT

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Just curious

Postby Strangely Brown » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:13 pm

angus wrote:They are observers because they DO NOT INSTRUCT


Yes, they do.

This argument has been thrashed to death many times here and the bottom line is that money changes hands and a course [of instruction] is given. You can engage in linguistic gymnastics all you like but it won't change the facts. The only reason that it continues is that nobody is interested in bringing a test case. There would be no winners other than the lawyers who will get paid regardless.

martine
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Re: Just curious

Postby martine » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:45 pm

So back on thread...yes IAM 'Observers' and ROSPA 'Tutors' are volunteers who have received extra training after passing the advanced test. Most are not ADI's.

In the IAM RoadSmart's case...Observers are trained following a competency-based system and are accredited by the IMI (Institute of the Motor Industry). This is fairly recent and is an attempt to ensure the consistency of Observers.
Martin - Bristol Advanced Motorists: IMI National Observer, Group Secretary, Masters (dist), DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

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angus
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Re: Just curious

Postby angus » Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:23 pm

Strangely Brown wrote:
angus wrote:They are observers because they DO NOT INSTRUCT


Yes, they do.

This argument has been thrashed to death many times here and the bottom line is that money changes hands and a course [of instruction] is given. You can engage in linguistic gymnastics all you like but it won't change the facts. The only reason that it continues is that nobody is interested in bringing a test case. There would be no winners other than the lawyers who will get paid regardless.


But the observer doesn't (shouldn't) receive any financial gain, only the group (debatable) and HO. The observer doesn't "instruct" because they aren't an ADI

However, in the real world, I accept your points

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Just curious

Postby Strangely Brown » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:13 pm

angus wrote:
Strangely Brown wrote:
angus wrote:They are observers because they DO NOT INSTRUCT


Yes, they do.

This argument has been thrashed to death many times here and the bottom line is that money changes hands and a course [of instruction] is given. You can engage in linguistic gymnastics all you like but it won't change the facts. The only reason that it continues is that nobody is interested in bringing a test case. There would be no winners other than the lawyers who will get paid regardless.


But the observer doesn't (shouldn't) receive any financial gain, only the group (debatable) and HO.


As has been pointed out many times, that is irrelevant. The point is that money has changed hands. i.e. the end user has paid for the course [of instruction]. It doesn't matter that the person giving the course [of instruction] does not receive the money.

angus wrote:The observer doesn't "instruct" because they aren't an ADI


The observer most certainly does instruct. You can call it observing, assessing, co-driving, whatever you like. It's all just playing with words and by any definition, what the observer does is instruct. They impart knowledge.

angus wrote:However, in the real world, I accept your points


Excellent. :cheers:

devonutopia
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Re: Just curious

Postby devonutopia » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:25 pm

" money changes hands"

Never happens in our group. :) All voluntary.

And membership subscriptions to the group is not driving instruction. :)

waremark
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Re: Just curious

Postby waremark » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:56 pm

devonutopia wrote:" money changes hands"

Never happens in our group. :) All voluntary.

And membership subscriptions to the group is not driving instruction. :)

IAM or Rospa?

Both will claim that all payments made are for matters other than the giving of instruction. I think this claim is a little more challenging for IAM than for Rospa. I find it particularly difficult to understand the claim in the case of Mentored Masters, and the price difference from Masters without mentoring.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Just curious

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:47 am

The water is muddied further for motorcycle observers/tutors as they often get an expenses contribution from the associate. But then the instruction clause in the legal rules doesn't cover motorcycles..
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

Smeeagain
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Re: Just curious

Postby Smeeagain » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:07 am

angus wrote:By instructor, do you mean observer?

If so, a few are ADIs, but most are volunteers who have passed the relevant test and are putting something back into their group. The IAM now has a structure for becoming an observer, but when I wanted to become an observer (20 odd years ago), I waws told to do RoSPA and if I got gold I could be one.

They are observers because they DO NOT INSTRUCT


RoSPA seems to refer to them as tutors. Their guidelines for setting up a nee group mentions the recruitment of tutors whilst referring to a handbook on Advanced Driving Instruction ..... :D


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