Smee's test - specifics

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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Horse
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Smee's test - specifics

Postby Horse » Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:31 pm

Smee asked that the test write-up didn't become a discussion, so a new thread to ask about some point's noted:

1. Signalling too late on motorway exit -I signalled at the 200 yard marker . . . it was late.

2. He said he wouldn’t have used the indicator to go from lane 2 back into lane 1. Not sure I agree but that’s what he said. I just think those around you need to know where you are going.

3. Decelerated in lane 1 before slip – Fair cop, I know it’s wrong don’t know why I did it, slip road was clear

1. How so 'too late'? If you're at a similar speed to traffic ahead and/or behind, then moving off the main carriageway isn't going to have an immediate effect on them, any signal you give is moving away from 'essential information' towards 'nice to know. Even then, at 70mph they are still going to have a fair opportunity to see and understand your signal. It could be argued that, if you're at the same speed as them, then there's little or no benefit for them from any signal.

2. IMHO "It depends" :) As a matter of course, the 'normal' driving position is on the left, so other drivers ought to expect you to move their after passing. I tend to stay out if the vehicle - vehicle gap in the left lane, and their speed, is such I'd have to be moving back out in less than about 12 seconds (assuming I don't have someone closing fast from behind who I'd otherwise be obstructing). However, perhaps a signal is of benefit where the other driver might not be expecting it, situations where you might also be reducing speed too having just passed them.

3. IMHO It's not always 'wrong'. An exit slip I use regularly is where even the main carriageway is on a downhill left, with the off-slip itself even further downhill and tightening left with limited visibility. Depending on traffic, I'll slow and go down to 4th on the main carriageway, otherwise that has to be done on a tighter (and tightening) bend. Moving 'down' from m-ways to the A34 around Newbury, some of the off-slips are so short that leaving all the braking until you're on them requires 'firm' application, especially if trying to have speed down and gear selected (non-BGOL) ready to apply drive into the following bends.



Are my [gold-failing] thoughts (1 & 3) so wrong?
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

ancient
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby ancient » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:03 pm

I wondered why:
Cruise control – suggested only for use on open road, and to remember my brain is better at controlling the vehicle than the car’s

Personally I find CC useful in far more situations than the open road (and often not useful then, due to bends etc). CC is (IMO) useful whenever (and only ever when) I want a consistent speed whilst my right foot is doing something else.

On a motorway the 'something else' is either resting (no other traffic in sight) or hovering over the brake (other traffic in a position where it could make an impact on my plans - but no need to reduce speed yet).

Similarly there are situations in a built-up environment where speed 'x' is the speed I have decided it is safe to drive at, there are potential hazards (for which speed 'x' is suitable) but nothing that requires me to constantly alter my speed (as bends in the road might, or surrounding traffic altering its speed, or any kids bouncing footballs etc...). In this situation CC allows me to maintain this safe speed whilst my foot once again hovers over the brake - thus reducing my reaction time to braking and increasing safety. As long as I don't allow speed 'x' to become 'x+n', I believe this is an appropriate use of CC.

Thoughts?

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Horse
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby Horse » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:07 pm

I use CC on odd occasions, but don't like the wallowy feel that comes with it (I never realised 'why' I didn't like that aspect and 'how' I'd previously got around it in 'manual'(right foot) driving until shown how to be better at driving bends by Gareth and JC) when it shuts off drive mid-corner.

Some cars have speed limiters, of course, as an alternative for keeping to speed limits where there are, as you say, no hazards requiring a change of speed.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

hir
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby hir » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:38 pm

Horse wrote:Smee asked that the test write-up didn't become a discussion, so a new thread to ask about some point's noted:

1. Signalling too late on motorway exit -I signalled at the 200 yard marker . . . it was late.

2. He said he wouldn’t have used the indicator to go from lane 2 back into lane 1. Not sure I agree but that’s what he said. I just think those around you need to know where you are going.

3. Decelerated in lane 1 before slip – Fair cop, I know it’s wrong don’t know why I did it, slip road was clear

1. How so 'too late'? If you're at a similar speed to traffic ahead and/or behind, then moving off the main carriageway isn't going to have an immediate effect on them, any signal you give is moving away from 'essential information' towards 'nice to know. Even then, at 70mph they are still going to have a fair opportunity to see and understand your signal. It could be argued that, if you're at the same speed as them, then there's little or no benefit for them from any signal.

2. IMHO "It depends" :) As a matter of course, the 'normal' driving position is on the left, so other drivers ought to expect you to move their after passing. I tend to stay out if the vehicle - vehicle gap in the left lane, and their speed, is such I'd have to be moving back out in less than about 12 seconds (assuming I don't have someone closing fast from behind who I'd otherwise be obstructing). However, perhaps a signal is of benefit where the other driver might not be expecting it, situations where you might also be reducing speed too having just passed them.

3. IMHO It's not always 'wrong'. An exit slip I use regularly is where even the main carriageway is on a downhill left, with the off-slip itself even further downhill and tightening left with limited visibility. Depending on traffic, I'll slow and go down to 4th on the main carriageway, otherwise that has to be done on a tighter (and tightening) bend. Moving 'down' from m-ways to the A34 around Newbury, some of the off-slips are so short that leaving all the braking until you're on them requires 'firm' application, especially if trying to have speed down and gear selected (non-BGOL) ready to apply drive into the following bends.



Are my [gold-failing] thoughts (1 & 3) so wrong?


In time honoured fashion I shall respond with... "It just depends"

This is why it is so difficult to discuss these situations on a forum after the event. In my view, the real value of these forum discussions is that one can arm oneself with all the supporting arguments (that is, the ones that support one's own argument) and then argue the toss with the examiner next time around. :o :o :o :lol:

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Horse
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby Horse » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:53 pm

. . . Last time I argued with an examiner was my second car test :) He was actually trying to help, I passed!
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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ChristianAB
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby ChristianAB » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:43 pm

Yeah, again I have this fleeting feeling that this is why advanced driving is not more widespread: we end up making a bit issues of what are actually tiny and often inconsequential details.

devonutopia
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby devonutopia » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:21 pm

1. Drilled into me to indicate at 300 yards, maybe even a bit before that - don't know why and agree if no one around to see it, why bother?

2. I plan for the best, expect the worst. I certainly never expect a car I have passed to think "Oh, he should pull back in now" - Therefore I indicate to make this manouvere clear and absolutely expected. I appreciate the same in reciprocation too, although not bothered when it never happens. Perhaps I am always expecting it?

3. I wouldn't do it in flowing traffic, but when the rearview mirror is entirely clear I will often decelerate from 70 to 50 (ish - depends) on the carriageway before pulling off, most likely just engine braking from the 300 yard marker or something - most likely with no signal as no one to see it. I feel it eases the brake usage when it comes to the negotiation of the end of the slip road - be it a corner, roundabout, traffic light. A little bit of "ease and squeeze" principle too perhaps, even though no other traffic.

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EasyShifter
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby EasyShifter » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:26 am

devonutopia wrote:1. Drilled into me to indicate at 300 yards, maybe even a bit before that - don't know why and agree if no one around to see it, why bother?
3. I wouldn't do it in flowing traffic, but when the rearview mirror is entirely clear I will often decelerate from 70 to 50 (ish - depends) on the carriageway before pulling off, most likely just engine braking from the 300 yard marker or something - most likely with no signal as no one to see it. I feel it eases the brake usage when it comes to the negotiation of the end of the slip road - be it a corner, roundabout, traffic light. A little bit of "ease and squeeze" principle too perhaps, even though no other traffic.


1, If there's no one around to see it I wouldn't either, but the issue is about where there is someone there but they wouldn't actually benefit - i.e. in a line of traffic in lane 1, if one suddenly isn't there where's the problem? IN theory I would agree, but I think there might be benefits and the rule always is 'If in doubt, signal anyway' - better a redundant signal than an unexpected issue. The point about not signalling when no one will benefit it not that there's some actual virtue in not signalling but rather that adopting that principle makes us look and not just drive on auto-pilot. We don't know what the driver behind is thinking (or even whether they're thinking at all . . .) and s/he might be about to do the same but less skilfully. They might even be preparing to accelerate down the inside of us as the deceleration lane opens up - something I've seen before. Generally, if there's a driver behind, I want them to know what I plan to do. Once the required consideration has been given, the purpose of the rule has been accomplished so if in doubt give a signal.And if on test, explain in commentary.

2. ON a NSL single carriageway near me there's a turn-off with a very short deceleration lane followed by tight bends in alternate direction, so I also make a point of slowing down before I get to the deceleration lane. The complication is another left junction just a very few yards before. So that also means that to avoid confusing the driver behind I usually leave the signal late as well - which I guess in itself can be confusing! But even without a signal anyone emerging from the first junction could think I was turning in and so pull out in front of me. There are various possible scenarios and combinations of them and the situation might well change quite late in the IPSGA process. So it's all about sharp observation and a rapidly changeable driving plan while being ready to use the horn if necessary, but it's one of those where it's just impossible to make a ruling without all kinds of provisos. It all comes down to the point I saw made in an article recently: 'An advanced driver is a thinking driver'.
Michael

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:29 am

Signalling to return to lane 1. Why? If you have just done the typical momentum/flowing overtake of a single vehicle, what is the benefit to anyone of those flashes of light? However, if I have been in lane 2 for sometime passing a stream of slower traffic where the speed difference isn't much, then I'd certainly consider using the indicator. For me the key question is: Am I far enough ahead of the vehicle to cause no impact on their driving? If so, no indicator.

Cruise Control. I use it all over the place. I find it much more useful than the limiter, which seems pretty pointless (you can only override it by a BIG piece of acceleration or the cancel button). With the cruise control I often drive using the buttons and not the pedal. Does the pedal have to be the only way we control the throttle? It has the finesse of 1 mph increments and a press of cancel allows the car to slow naturally for hazards/queues as required. Going back to the other thread on knowing how your car works, this is very true of the CC. You NEED to be very comfortable with its control and the placement of the buttons before using it in traffic. Unusually (?) my new car allows gear changes in CC mode and the only thing that kills it is the brake pedal or cancel button. You can accelerate with the pedal past the set speed and then release the pedal to return to the cruising speed. Some now are also adaptive (not driven one though).
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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Horse
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby Horse » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:55 am

FWIW we have two SEATs, both with CC. Both work differently, most importantly in the number of clicks needed to adjust speed. My Ibiza needs about 3 clicks per mph change!
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.


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