Smee's test - specifics

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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superplum
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby superplum » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:32 am

My two-penny worth:

We, (some, most,all) choose to be examined to RoSPA standards which are based on Roadcraft:

Signalling at the 300yd marker is a Roadcraft standard. Whether or not there is a need for that signal is, your consideration.

As for signalling left to return to a lane, as GTR1400MAN opines, that suggests that an overtake has occured and, provided sufficient gap (2 sec+) is maintained and you are still pulling away, then no signal should be necessary. The gist is that the drivers behind you can see your movements and shouldn't need to be told.

As advanced drivers/riders, we choose to meet (or try) those standards, so why should we wish to question them?
:popcorn:

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akirk
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby akirk » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:58 am

superplum wrote:As advanced drivers/riders, we choose to meet (or try) those standards, so why should we wish to question them?
:popcorn:


you were doing so well up to that point :lol:

this is a forum on AD - surely that is what we do - question everything even if there is no point to our rambles?! :soap:

more prosaically, challenging / questioning anything is part of the gradual evolution / development of standards

Alasdair

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Horse
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby Horse » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:27 am

superplum wrote: RoSPA standards which are based on Roadcraft:

Signalling at the 300yd marker is a Roadcraft standard. Whether or not there is a need for that signal is, your consideration.


Can you quote the relevant section?

I only have the 1994 edition (first version of the bloated, non-Bluebook style), which says:
"Always allow sufficient time for other drivers to react to your signals. Generally you should indicate no later than the 300 yard marker"

- Other drivers reactions; worth asking 'who?' and 'how will they react?' Perhaps the answer was in the preceding text:
"If the motorway is busy, consider join the left lane earlier rather than later"
So there's an assumption there that you will have been in an outer lane, so presumably travelling faster than other L1 traffic.

- 'Generally'; so it's not a 'standard', is it, just a recommendation.

superplum wrote: We, (some, most,all) choose to be examined to RoSPA standards


I'd suggest 'fewer' choose RoSPA than IAM :) A % of the total (IAM/RoSPA/DIAmond/BMF Blue Riband/DSA Special Test/HPC/any others) perhaps . . . :)
My own views. For better or worse :)

ancient
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby ancient » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:29 am

superplum wrote:As advanced drivers/riders, we choose to meet (or try) those standards, so why should we wish to question them?
:popcorn:

As a member of the IAM I have at one point met a certain set of standards (or someone's interpretation of them), which apparently makes me 'officially' an advanced motorist.

More importantly (IMO) every time I drive I try to justify my choices, criticise what I cannot justify, generally think about what I am doing with the vehicle and potential consequences; with an aim of getting better, safer as a driver. In my mind that is what differentiates my driving from what I see around me, which is generally a lack of thought with occasional aggressiveness.
IMO then, the rules (as Captain Barbossa so memorably remarked, being an advanced piraty type) are "more of what you call guidelines " :P

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superplum
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby superplum » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:56 pm

Horse wrote:
superplum wrote: RoSPA standards which are based on Roadcraft:

Signalling at the 300yd marker is a Roadcraft standard. Whether or not there is a need for that signal is, your consideration.


Can you quote the relevant section?

I only have the 1994 edition (first version of the bloated, non-Bluebook style), which says:
"Always allow sufficient time for other drivers to react to your signals. Generally you should indicate no later than the 300 yard marker"

- Other drivers reactions; worth asking 'who?' and 'how will they react?' Perhaps the answer was in the preceding text:
"If the motorway is busy, consider join the left lane earlier rather than later"
So there's an assumption there that you will have been in an outer lane, so presumably travelling faster than other L1 traffic.

- 'Generally'; so it's not a 'standard', is it, just a recommendation.

superplum wrote: We, (some, most,all) choose to be examined to RoSPA standards


I'd suggest 'fewer' choose RoSPA than IAM :) A % of the total (IAM/RoSPA/DIAmond/BMF Blue Riband/DSA Special Test/HPC/any others) perhaps . . . :)


Current Roadcraft states (Page 223):

"If a signal is necessary, always allow plenty of time for other drivers to react, indicate at the 300 yard marker."

I suspect that "fewer choose RoSPA than IAM" because the publicity and media input is almost non-existent (excluding any group efforts).

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superplum
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby superplum » Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:59 pm

akirk wrote:
superplum wrote:As advanced drivers/riders, we choose to meet (or try) those standards, so why should we wish to question them?
:popcorn:


you were doing so well up to that point :lol:

this is a forum on AD - surely that is what we do - question everything even if there is no point to our rambles?! :soap:

more prosaically, challenging / questioning anything is part of the gradual evolution / development of standards

Alasdair


Well it was intended to stimulate!
:)

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Horse
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby Horse » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:30 am

superplum wrote:
Horse wrote:
superplum wrote: RoSPA standards which are based on Roadcraft:

Signalling at the 300yd marker is a Roadcraft standard. Whether or not there is a need for that signal is, your consideration.


1994 edition says:
"Always allow sufficient time for other drivers to react to your signals. Generally you should indicate no later than the 300 yard marker"

- 'Generally'; so it's not a 'standard', is it, just a recommendation.


Current Roadcraft states (Page 223):

"If a signal is necessary, always allow plenty of time for other drivers to react, indicate at the 300 yard marker."


The world must be a wonderful place for Roadcraft authors if they only need to fiddle with irrelevant twoddle like that (IMHO of course :D ) . . .

I'd love to hear why that change was felt necessary. I thought the whole point of moving away from Bluebook was to develop a more driver-centred, less prescriptive, method of driver development . . .

For clarity, sometimes I'll signal earlier than 300, sometimes later. Partly the decision will be made on the basis of traffic speed.
My own views. For better or worse :)

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:24 am

I mostly signal much later. If you apply the well-known rule of thumb of "one blink per 10mph" favoured by some examiners, that works out somewhere close to 5 seconds, which at 70mph is less than 150 yards. Yet you're told to signal at the 300 yard marker - more than double that amount. And for what? To tell the bloke behind that you won't be in front of him any more ...

If you also apply the rule of not slowing down on the main carriageway (much more important to my mind), what difference are you making by leaving? Zip. The signal is as near pointless as doesn't matter.

Of course on test I'm a good boy and signal at 300 yards ... :roll:
Nick

waremark
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby waremark » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:30 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Of course on test I'm a good boy and signal at 300 yards ... :roll:

I say 'I don't know why Roadcraft recommends signalling at 300 yards' and signal as I consider appropriate!

fungus
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Re: Smee's test - specifics

Postby fungus » Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:50 pm

A signal should be considered. If there's no one close enough to benefit from it, then why give it? Similarly when joining a motorway, is a signal realy necessary? It's obvious that your joining the carriageway, your not going to crash through the Armco barrier, are you?

I would always signal to change lane, except possibly moving back from lane two into lane one.

I would not normally lose speed on the main carriageway unless the off slip is too short or bends tightly as in the example here on the A35 just East of Dorchester.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.74426 ... a=!3m1!1e3

Nigel.


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