Advanced Driving Hub

Smeeagain wrote:

akirk wrote:It is valid for the examiner to want to understand that the examinee knows the controls / knows the car is safe to drive -

Alasdair

But surely the knowledge would have come from the fact that we'd discussed beforehand that I've had the car six years and covered 150,000 miles in it ........

Absolutely not - witness the number of people who own a car for years and never look under the bonnet, or open the handbook. While I'm very sympathetic to your situation in respect of the amount of detail you were asked to provide, that particular approach doesn't wash.

akirk wrote:Absolutely, my point being that it makes sense to cover the topic, it doesn't make sense to be anal about making the examinee prove what is obvious...

Alasdair

Agreed. Unfortunately this tendency towards OCD by some examiners stems from their police driving school backgrounds where they were required to demonstrate their ability at locating all switches, including indicators, lights, wipers, heater controls (including heated seats and heated steering wheel ), cup-holders, the BBC radio 2 button, etc, etc, etc, on every test they ever had.

This particular examiner needs reminding that he is not carrying out a police driving test; that civilian life is different; that someone who has driven his vehicle 150,000 miles will actually know where the indicator switch is!

I did like his advice and explanation of pre and post ignition brake testing.

hir wrote:This particular examiner needs reminding that he is not carrying out a police driving test; that civilian life is different; that someone who has driven his vehicle 150,000 miles will actually know where the indicator switch is!

I think you'll find this particular candidate has a BMW!

hir wrote:I did like his advice and explanation of pre and post ignition brake testing.

I teach this. Static brake test and keeping the foot on the pedal to feel for the servo being activated by engine vacuum. Then I have to explain what a brake servo is ...

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:

Smeeagain wrote:

akirk wrote:It is valid for the examiner to want to understand that the examinee knows the controls / knows the car is safe to drive -

Alasdair

But surely the knowledge would have come from the fact that we'd discussed beforehand that I've had the car six years and covered 150,000 miles in it ........

Absolutely not - witness the number of people who own a car for years and never look under the bonnet, or open the handbook. While I'm very sympathetic to your situation in respect of the amount of detail you were asked to provide, that particular approach doesn't wash.

I don't think he was asked to look under the bonnet, or in the handbook. He was told that he should have done a more comprehensive cabin check. I think Smeeagain's point is perfectly valid.

The examiner should use his common sense in these situations. It can be assumed by the examiner that someone who has driven a vehicle 150,000 miles will know where the indicator controls, the wiper controls, the light switches, the horn button, the mirror adjustment controls are all located. He shouldn't have to demonstrate this knowledge before starting the engine. If, after 150,000 miles of driving, he isn't overly familiar with the controls then that will soon become apparent on test and, I would suggest, there'll be rather more important matters for the examiner to discuss with the candidate than the location of the indicator witches .

However, an examinee who arrives for test with a vehicle he bought last week - well that's a completely different matter. In which case the examiner should specifically ask for a demonstration of familiarity with the controls. Like I said before the world of police driving is different in this respect to civilian driving where drivers tend to drive just one vehicle on a regular basis.

In any case, a lack of familiarity with the controls will soon become apparent on test when the wipers commence their sweep across a clear windscreen on the approach to a left-hand turn.

PS: Perhaps I shouldn't discount the possibility that an examinee who doesn't know where his indicator controls are located, and who has therefore consciously avoided any signalling whatsoever on test, will cover-up that lack of knowledge by exclaiming to the examiner that his observer told him that... "advanced drivers don't need to indicate because no one will benefit. Anyway, that's what I thought he said".

Crikey - I begin to wonder about my own ROSPA Diploma and IAM Masters...it will be interesting when you get the test report to see what he highlights - giving you an idea of why silver and not gold.

hir wrote:I don't think he was asked to look under the bonnet, or in the handbook. He was told that he should have done a more comprehensive cabin check. I think Smeeagain's point is perfectly valid.

His point about being asked for silly amounts of detail about the cockpit controls of a car he's owned for more than a couple of weeks is perfectly valid (as far as it goes). Later in his report he mentions use of different modes of the transmission. He doesn't say whether he explained those modes to the examiner, or when he planned to use them, for instance.

I was just commenting on the assumption that owning a car for a certain length of time imbues technical knowledge on how it works, or knowledge of whether the engine has enough oil in it, for example. It doesn't.

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:I teach this. Static brake test and keeping the foot on the pedal to feel for the servo being activated by engine vacuum. Then I have to explain what a brake servo is ...

Do you check whether it has a brake servo first? (that was one of the features I had to explain about the Elise...)

Yes I explained the Auto, Auto Sport and Tiptronic manual and I said I would most likley spend most time in Auto, but I would use the other functions as and when road conditions or hazards dictated (which I did)

martine wrote:Crikey - I begin to wonder about my own ROSPA Diploma and IAM Masters...it will be interesting when you get the test report to see what he highlights - giving you an idea of why silver and not gold.

What's a RoSPA Diploma?

surely if we believe (as seems to be the current trend) that outcomes matter more than specific types of input the controls and familiarity are irrelevant unless that impacts on the outcomes?

For example, my Z3 has a cruise control stalk but I almost never use it - is a knowledge on how to use that critical or even important for AD? I would suggest probably not... As for the alternatives on the gear box - which would appear to be the same as the X5 (steptronic / auto-sport / auto) I might mention that I will be almost exclusively using steptronic specifically around how the box can interfere occasionally and change gear when not expected, I might also express my preference for using the upper part of the rev range (car comes alive, sounds better, is more fun!) so that I can show it is deliberate - but actually the examiner should only be concerned about whether it gives an Advanced Drive or not...

Alasdair