Any ROSPA test tips

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
Smeeagain
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby Smeeagain » Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:59 pm

Thank you. And thank you to everyone who contributed to my posts and questions

Smee

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EasyShifter
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby EasyShifter » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:44 am

My wife doesn't drive, but she knows the road signs pretty well from my incessant commentary practice!! So she spot-checks me from time to time. I've also told her about the 'points to watch' from my masters mentor and she will tell me if, for example, I point at something relating to my commentary - 'You're pointing'. Sometimes a little nagging can be welcome! :lol:
Michael

Smeeagain
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby Smeeagain » Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:36 pm

So here are my thoughts and observations from my test yesterday. I have specifically not named the examiner or the location – I just think it isn’t really relevant.

Apologies it's quite long, you may wish tempt the kettle on .......

Whilst anyone reading this may or may not agree with things the examiner said or did, it is meant to be a statement of fact, in terms of what happened, so perhaps limit the responses is you don’t agree. Happy to take any feedback on the reporting itself.

The contradicted some things my instructor told me (e.g. moving brake test) but that’s what happened and I can only report it the way it was.

Apologies for any typos.

I can’t remember everything he said but will scan and post his write up when I receive it. I’ve written up the format of the test and then the resulting comments on the drive raised in the debrief, rather than raising the points through the report, unless I think it helps the flow of the report.

Examiner’s background as I understand it – former Police Traffic Officer and Police (and civilian) Driving Instructor. I understand that he has held senior positions in driving instruction institutions and has a Masters in Driving Instruction (I didn’t know this existed). He does consultancy for large organisations training fleet drivers etc. Re my other post, he said I was not expected to drive the to the standard of a trained police driver.

He asked me to meet at his house as he prefers to meet there and have a chat whilst going through the paperwork. The chat is to learn more about the candidate, their interests and motivations, why they are undertaking the test etc.

My vehicle 2004 BMW X5 3.0 Turbo Diesel 218BHP Automatic – 229,000 miles on the clock, owned it for 6 years and have put 150k on it. Currently it has mud and snow tyres (as I was driving off road in Scotland a couple of weeks ago).

I got up about 0630 had breakfast and morning ablutions etc. and ingested some coffee. I wanted to be bright and alert and not falling out of bed at the last minute. I arrived at his address around 9am for a 0930 start. It was a good couple of hours since breakfast so had a snack bar to maintain blood sugar levels and a small drink to keep hydrated as it had been very hot through the night and I didn’t sleep much. The weather was warm bright and sunny with a little cloud. And no wind to speak of. There had been no rain overnight. I had been up and down his road a couple of times over the weekend as there are lots of parking restrictions, the speed limit changes either ned of his road, it’s narrow and lots of parked vehicles necessitating the need to drive on the opposite side of the carriageway or meet oncoming vehicles on the opposing side etc. It was Bank Holiday Monday so potential for lots of Day Trippers unfamiliar with the roads/areas, lots of individuals and groups of cyclists, leisurely ‘Sunday’ drivers, folk with their holiday head on and being distracted by kids in the car etc. – all of which we encountered.

Knocked on his door at 0925 – he was friendly and welcoming. Went into his office and he asked what paperwork I had. I had driving licence photocard, plus got a DVLA code and activated so he could check further details (zero points or endorsements), MOT, Insurance (which he checked closely to ensure it was valid and relevant to my vehicle), evidence of vehicle having been taxed, ROADAR membership number. He asked how long I had been driving, how long I had the vehicle, how many miles I do each year, what kind of work I did, why I was doing the test etc., etc., etc. He asked about the POWDER/FLOWERY checklist so I went through that in his office (which threw me slightly as I was planning to do that in the cockpit drill).

I am confident in my abilities but will admit to feeling test nerves and apprehension. I’m 51 and the last time someone formally examined my driving I was 17. Nerves did let me down a couple of times on test which he acknowledged was nerve related and having been through it, it wasn’t the daunting thing I thought it would be and am fine with a re-test.

We then went out to the vehicle around 10am.

He stood by the vehicle and said “ From now till the end of the test, assume I know nothing about your vehicle”, so I did the whole vehicle description – make, model, year of reg, BHP, Diesel, auto, ABS brakes etc.

We got in the car and I did my cockpit drill – I covered external vehicle check, light assemblies, indicators (all of which I had said I had checked earlier in the day), redid the FLOWERY check as I wanted to for my own piece of mind, talked him through the auto gearbox, and Sport/tiptronic manual functions, windscreen front and rear, and all 3 mirrors clean, clear and no chips or cracks. Cockpit clean clear and empty of things to move around, bag in boot secured with a load strap, door pockets empty. Ignition on – check all lights that should go on, do so, and all light that should go off did so. Start engine, check brake pedal up to pressure as servo kicks in, check power steering is functioning, throttle light and responsive etc.

He then asked if he could attach his own mirror which I was fine with of course.

Check all round, over shoulder and mirrors, no-one to indicate to and off we go. I explain I will do a gentle moving brake test to check on/off function of brakes and a firmer one a little further down the road to check for pulls and judders with steering/braking/suspension.

So at this point I will state what he said in the debrief. Firstly, slightly reprimanded for not demonstrating knowledge of my own vehicle controls (here are the lights, this is the indicators, this one is the wipers etc). My instructor has never gone into that level of detail. At the debrief I politely challenged the examiner and said, but I told you at the start I’ve done 150,000 miles in this vehicle. He politely replied that I still needed to demonstrate that I knew my vehicle inside out and that he had told me he didn’t know anything about my vehicle. Semantics I think but that is what he wanted. He said He had had candidates on Rospa advanced that had repeated failed to find wipers, indicators etc. on their own vehicles and even hit bollards because they had not adjusted their mirrors correctly.

During the debrief he also said that my approach to testing brakes was not correct. First check he said, was to check for brake pressure, before switching on the ignition and pumping pedal to get it to pressure and se it holds – this would check for a leak. Then once car is started check servo pressure has kicked in and turn steering wheel at same time (not because that makes a difference to the brakes but simply that they can be done together). These two checks negate the need for the first MBT. The second former MBT is still required as it checks steering, brakes and suspension in unison.

I opted to do full narrative commentary throughout. My choice I just prefer it.

So off we went, end of the road turn left, up steep hill and into temporary roadworks and temporary traffic lights, very narrow road due to the roadworks – all good and exit it cleanly and clearly. Up the hill and blind bend to the right, with a following vehicle behind and we encounter a cyclist climbing the hill slowly and a further ned beyond him so not safe to pass. I explained that as I had a tall vehicle the vehicle behind may not be able to see the cyclist in front of me, so I would move out slightly to the centre of the carriageway to position my vehicle such that the following vehicle would clearly see the cyclist. When it was safe to do so I then indicated, having checked mirrors etc ., out and round cyclist and off again. I had been on this road with my instructor so knew we were coming to sharp blind bend, mirror decelerate and toot of the horn before going round the bed and off we go to end of road and Stop sign. Full stop and then check and move off into a gap and briskly up to speed 40 (switched on cruise control to lock speed at 40 as the road was open and clear). U to a roundabout, and down towards local village – solid white line, National Speed limit, downhill log run etc.
Passed more cyclists on the other side of the road with opposing vehicles going out and around then on my side of the road. Through a series of villages and out on to country roads, and into Sports mode in auto, then fully manual for use of engine brake etc. Into another village, back to 30mph, into church car park and asked to do reverse bay park. I did so but want happy I was fully in the box. I said I wasn’t happy and he said, if you’re not happy do what you would do if you were on your own and fix it. So I re-did it. In fact in the debrief he said I was about two inches off centre but within the bay and was overthinking it (nerves?) and when I redid it, it was bang on. Out the car park and then on our way.
Onto A roads then onto and AnumberM road with a couple of overtakes. I did over the shoulder checks when changing lane and indicated when dropping back in. He took me off the slip at an exist and straight over the roundabout ad back on to the same road. The M designation changes and then back to A road, off the next exist and back gradually through built up area with change from 40 to 3) and back to his house and asked to reverse on to his driveway. End of test


Debrief – I’m not sure how long were were driving for but it was around an hour. I didn’t leave his house ‘il 12.30pm so the debrief was about 90 mins and longer than the drive itself.

Road sign interpretation and recognition of signs was good but it was suggested that when I identify a double bend sign then I should articulate that it is left first then right etc. I got a ‘pedestrians on road sign wrong twice (I said it was folk crossing) – I know what the sign means I don’t know why I got it wrong, and twice at that.

Mirrors – use of mirrors was good and appropriate, but during my commentary I would say mirrors or mirrors check every time I checked and then describe what I was seeing or needed to react to. He suggested I stopped saying mirrors as it was taking up valuable time. Even if he hadn’t seen me look at the mirror by the very fact that I’m describing what is happening behind is showing him that I’ve looked. Fair point.

Signalling too late on motorway exit -I signalled at the 200 yard marker. Fair cop and I knew it was late. General indicator use was good but he said he wouldn’t have used the indicator to go from lane 2 back into lane 1. Not sure I agree but that’s what he said. I just think those around you need to know where you are going.

Decelerated in lane 1 before slip – Fair cop, I know it’s wrong don’t know why I did it, slip road was clear
Use of manual – all good but he thought I could have gone faster on country roads. Was doing 45 when 50 was possible. For some reason I randomly changed down from 4 to 3 when I meant to go for 5th. It wasn’t unsafe and he was fine with it. He put it down to nerves and overthinking.

Speed – all good generally speaking. I went through a 40 to 30 change, acknowledged that and then let it creep to about 33 which he spotted but said it was only the once, it was the very end of the test and he was fine with it.

System of car control was good

Commentary was excellent

Use of horn was appropriate and good

Positioning - good

Vehicle empathy – good

Over the shoulder check – he used this to check if I knew my stopping distances at 70 and what distance I would have covered at 70 in the time it takes to check over your shoulder and back.

Cruise control – suggested only for use on open road, and to remember my brain is better at controlling the vehicle than the car’s

He said that it was essentially two minor errors for gold, ten (I think) for Bronze and Silver is somewhere in the middle. I got a silver.

I’m moving to the inner Hebrides in December and because I want to do some community bus driving etc . when I’m there, and I really wanted to go with Gold. He has said it is well within my reach and is happy to restest before then.

That’s about all I can remember for now.

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:17 pm

Very comprehensive. The test report may reveal more. Sounds like this particular examiner has a very thorough approach and is very keen on certain details (they all have their pet subjects). If I were to guess, I'd say your "preference" for doing a full commentary may possibly have detracted from your drive somewhat, along with a bit of first test nerves.

Many people get Silver on their first test and subsequently go on to get Gold next time. I suspect you'll be one of those.
Nick

Smeeagain
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby Smeeagain » Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:07 pm

I agree with your comments about the commentary and in fact my instructor did say that continuing to talk when there is potentially nothing to say can be detrimental or self distracting, or can lean to including historical or irrelevant info and I accept that, but I find I get distracted by general conversation and the particular examiner is known to be a bit chatty. He's even been known to apologise to candidates for distracting them, so I just wanted to steer clear if you'll excuse the pun!

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:59 pm

Congratulations on your Silver pass and thanks for the comprehensive report.

I have to say the level of car 'nerdi-ness' and cockpit shenanigans, is/would be just the sort of thing that puts people off taking an advanced DRIVING course. Yes, you should know about your car, but really do you have to explain every control/switch? Would I have to cover every combination of engine/gearbox settings available and how they influence the car's computer when it changes gear? And don't get me started on the configurable SatNav and car settings screen.

The test is supposed to be about safety and machine control during the demonstration drive, surely?

Every bike test I've done it's been taken as a given that I know the thing inside out, and much more than the examiner does (he/she can't know about every vehicle configuration out there!).

Awaits the lash back :twisted:
Last edited by GTR1400MAN on Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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jont-
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby jont- » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:07 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:I have to say the level of car 'nerdi-ness' and cockpit shenanigans, is/would be just the sort of thing that puts people off taking an advanced DRIVING course. Yes, you should know about your car, but really do you have to explain every control/switch? Would I have to cover every combination of engine/gearbox settings available and how they influence the car's computer when it changes gear? And don't get me started on the configurable SatNav and car settings screen.

The test is supposed to be about safety and machine control during the demonstration drive, surely?

Every bike test I've done it's been taken as a given that I know the thing inside out, and much more than the examiner does (he/she can't know about every vehicle configuration out there!).

Awaits the lash back :twisted:


Tend to agree. It's not supposed to be an L-test. I think when I did my test in the Elise I might have spent 15 minutes talking about the car, but that was probably more about the /lack/ of features :lol: (and the whole pre-test time was only about 15 minutes)

If you get a more modern car are they going to want you to explain all the features like self park, collision avoidance^w^w I'm overtaking alarm, blind spot warning, blah blah zzzzzz?

If you're supposed to know it inside and out, did he also check whether you can top up the oil, coolant, brake fluid, screenwash etc? I think the most technical question I had recently on my retest was whether I knew what my tyre pressures should be.

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akirk
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby akirk » Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:30 pm

It is valid for the examiner to want to understand that the examinee knows the controls / knows the car is safe to drive - however I suspect that this particular approach is a wee bit OCD and is only an example of that examiner, not all of them... (I would hope!) I think that if I had been asked to do that I would have simply confirmed that I was comfortable with all controls / that fluids were topped up / everything was working... To be marked down for that would be more of a failing in the system than in the examinee. As above - it is advanced driving, not engineering!

Alasdair

Smeeagain
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby Smeeagain » Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:56 pm

akirk wrote:It is valid for the examiner to want to understand that the examinee knows the controls / knows the car is safe to drive -

Alasdair


But surely the knowledge would have come from the fact that we'd discussed beforehand that I've had the car six years and covered 150,000 miles in it ........

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akirk
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby akirk » Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:32 pm

Absolutely, my point being that it makes sense to cover the topic, it doesn't make sense to be anal about making the examinee prove what is obvious...

Alasdair


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