Any ROSPA test tips

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:31 pm

I'm sure ratty will be back, but I also said this, so I will give my interpretation:

- done at a speed greater than walking pace - say 20-30mph
- described in commentary and with an advance warning*, not just a silent press of the brake and carry on
- using firm brake pressure (not necessarily an emergency stop, but enough to actually test the brakes)
- all essential mirror checks included, both before and after
- done in such a way as not to confuse or inconvenience other motorists

* "I'm going to carry out a moving brake test, the mirror is clear, braking now.... <firm braking> ... I'm holding the steering with a light grip, and checking that the vehicle pulls up in a straight line with no undue juddering or pulling to one side. Checking the mirror again, still clear, now engaging 2nd gear (assuming we got down to walking pace but did NOT stop in the road) and accelerating away"

Others may have other preferred phrases / procedure but this is a basic routine.

Things associates get wrong include the reverse of all the above - doing it at a speed too slow to show up any brake deficiencies, not describing what they're doing, just brushing the brakes, again not really testing them, stopping in the road and having to engage first gear with the danger that another vehicle will appear and wonder what on earth you're doing stopped in the middle of the road, not looking in their mirrors before and after.

HTH
Nick

Smeeagain
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby Smeeagain » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:48 pm

Perfect thanks. I tend to do an initial brush of the brakes, so as to show the brakes do work in terms of on/off, (with mirror check beforehand), but I also state I will do a firmer check, which checks any more significant issues such as steering pull, which could indicate a number of issues, not necessarily brake related. You may ask why do the first test, but for me, I want to know the brakes are coming on and off before going firmer at a higher speed and finding they don't go on...... but I do like the narrative you mention. One is brake test the there is testing more than just brakes IMHO

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akirk
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby akirk » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:42 pm

Brake test has several purposes and one is reassurance for the passengers - I remember Nick driving my car and though I know that he has an equally powerful RWD 2 seater, it was a reassurance when he did a brake test I felt that he was settling into understanding the car - he also did several other 'cockpit check' steps not just to check that they were working (no guarantees on an older car you don't know), but also because it moves things back from the conscious into the subconscious - that is how it works on this car, therefore at the time I need the indicators / windscreen wipers / lights / etc. it will be automatic...

I have been in a car of mine driven by someone else who went through a puddle at speed throwing water over the windscreen - their lack of that subconscious knowledge (not having familiarised themselves first) meant that they did what they would have done in their car - which in mine ended up turning the windscreen wipers off automatic and leaving the windscreen un-wiped / obscured... - while in theory we don't need it every time we get into a car, it is a useful 10 second moment and reassures us and the passengers...

Where I live, coming off the drive I am in a 30 for a minimum of several hundred yards with at least one junction or tight corner, so there is always a chance to brake test every journey... it is like shrugging yourself into a favourite jumper and slippers it puts you back into knowing that everything is 'just so' with the car - and when you have a passenger or the examiner it is a courtesy which reassures them - easy to do, and helpful

Alasdair

WhoseGeneration
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby WhoseGeneration » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:11 pm

No harm in performing a MBT, on test or just as part of normal driving, stuff wears and goes wrong.
For operational police officers this can be very important. Police cars left in some areas while officers make enquiries have been subject to cut brake lines.

ratty
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby ratty » Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:50 pm

Silk wrote:
ratty wrote:(including a moving brake test done properly)


:facepalm: Oh please. Who can be bothered with that?


Well, the last time I looked in the examiner's manual that was mentioned and failure to do one is a negative thing not a positive thing.

If you can't be bothered with doing what is expected, why turn up in the first place? If you don't like the rules of the game, play a different game.

ratty
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby ratty » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:05 pm

fungus wrote:
Silk wrote:
ratty wrote:(including a moving brake test done properly)


:facepalm: Oh please. Who can be bothered with that?


My examiner said at the start of the test, " We won't bother with a moving brake test. I can see you've got here in one peice."

Nigel.


Well if you got there in one piece, why bother with the rest of the test? Obviously you must be able to drive safely to get there!

This is another example of different examiners doing their own thing.

A moving brake test is mentioned in the examiner's manual and is part of the marked scores. Did the examiner who said the above comment that it was not done as part of the test in the report, or did they conveniently forget or overlook this?

Now where was that thread about inconsistency in IAM examining standards which resulted in lots of posts, perhaps we should included RoSPA examiners as well?

Smeeagain
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby Smeeagain » Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:06 am

In that case, look at my post from a week or so ago titled Rospa Test you need a police background to get gold ....

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:15 am

You said it yourself higher up. Sometimes you have to play by the rules. AIUI ratty is an examiner, so should you happen to get him, you know which rules you have to play by. No big surprise really. We all know what the big picture is, if some examiners choose to skip small parts of that, that's a "bonus", but it shouldn't stop us learning all the skills, imho.
Nick

sussex2
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby sussex2 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:37 am

Something like this should, but the time you take the test, be almost second nature.
It is you who is driving and not the examiner and it is up to you to be satisfied that all is OK.
Should you be accustomed to doing it and then miss it out the action, or lack of it, may well upset your sequence.

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Horse
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Re: Any ROSPA test tips

Postby Horse » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:27 am

Smeeagain wrote: I then ask them to give the belt a short sharp tug to demonstrate that the inertia reel mechanism is working.


Is that actually how they all work, and only that? Is 'a sharp tug' actually a valid test?

I found this elsewhere:

Modern restraint systems use both webbing sensors and vehicle sensors. The webbing sensors employed earlier were proved to allow too much belt to run out before the occupant was restrained and the vehicle sensor (deceleration and incline sensitive) was introduced. The pre-tensioner was also added to retract any loose spare webbing.


So at what point do you [the person on test] stop testing systems? Why are some considered important enough to test (albeit possibly incorrect, see above) and others not?

- Shouldn't the rolling brake test also encompass the ABS?
- What about stability & traction control?
- If you're testing the seatbelt, perhaps drive into a wall to test the airbags and seatbelt tensioners (and pedal retraction if fitted)? *

* I used to visit US air bases regularly. The visitor pass stated "Vehicle occupant restraints must be used". So did that mean I had to operate the seatbelt tensioners? ;) **

** I was on a motorcycle :lol: ***

*** One of my colleagues was at the end of a long, tiring, day. He was stopped by a [armed] guard and told he should be wearing 'reflective' gear [for safety]. He pointed out that if he wasn't reflecting light then the guard wouldn't have been able to even see him. The guard did not exhibit any humour, indeed became rather shouty. :lol: :lol: :bash: :soap:
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.


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