ROSPA - "you need a police background to get gold"

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Smeeagain
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ROSPA - "you need a police background to get gold"

Postby Smeeagain » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:12 am

Good morning,

Hello - fairly new to the forum (first post other than my introduction, I think).

So, I decided I wanted to be an 'advanced driver'.....

Having researched IAM and ROSPA I opted for the latter, rightly or wrongly. I've enjoyed the training and get on well with my instructor. The examiner for my area (through which my instructor has had six gold passes and one silver pass this year) is a retired Police driving Instructor. He is off sick and another examiner from another county has stepped in. He won't come to my area I must go to him,and whilst I totally accept that if you're "good enough" then you're good enough, regardless of the fact that you are being tested on roads that you are familiar with, I'm finding it unsettling to be forced into this - I took instruction in my area, drive in my area every day and expected, not unreasonably in my opinion, to be tested in my area. Apparently it is because the examiner needs to plan a route and can't do that in an area he is unfamiliar with (he too is a former police driver - are we supposed to believe he doesn't know how to use a road map.....?)

However that is just a little background to the situation and not the main thrust of my post.

My instructor spoke with the new examiner to discuss when I'd be ready for test. My instructor (IAM, ROSPA Gold, etc etc himself) was a little thrown off when the examiner asked 'What my expectations were of the level of pass I may get". Now to be clear I have no expectations, even given my instructors track record (six golds ad one silver this year). In my book, you practise, you learn, you read up, you hone your skills and present yourself for the test and hopefully you don't have a bad day at the office and give it your best shot,a d they award you what they award you 'based on your driving on the day'.

But...... the examiner's reason for asking was "As far as he was concerned, you couldn't get a gold unless you had a police background". I can find no reference to this 'criteria' in the ROSPA/ROADAR paperwork. But I also note n the paperwork that the examiner's decision is final. And if it is based on performance on the day, I have no issue with that (but I do have an issue with prejudice).

I feel like the goalposts have been moved somewhat after joining ROSPA, paying my membership, and paying my test fee. I feel like this examiner is prejudging someone he has never met. i now feel like I can't get ' a fair trial' so to speak. if I get a silver it was because he marked me down because he is prejudiced, when in actual fact it may well be because I only deserve a silver. If I don't get a gold then why was that ....... None of my instructor's six gold and one silver students had a police background, so this guy's approach is somewhat critical and demeaning of the current examiner's position.

The ROSPA/ROADAR test guidelines paperwork state that you can apply for a re-test (with a fee payable) if you get a silver (or bronze). The implication from this examiner is you'll never get the gold (with him at least) and therefore the money (and time and effort ) is wasted.I guess he is happy to take the money though (?)

I feel that I'd rather have different examiner and no know his prejudices and take what I get, so as to get my fair trial.

I'd appreciate and thoughts or feedback the forum collective may have.

Smee
Last edited by Smeeagain on Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

chriskay
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Location: Shrewsbury

Re: ROSPA - "you need a place background to get gold"

Postby chriskay » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:46 am

This is totally unreasonable. I don't think you should be required to move out of the area where you've done all your training and the attitude of the proposed new examiner (if accurate) is outrageous. Ex-police personnel must form a very low proportion of those taking the test, but the proportion of Gold passes is much greater.
I think you should forward a copy of this post to R0SPA H.Q. and ask for their comments.
Last edited by chriskay on Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Carpe diem

ancient
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Re: ROSPA - "you need a place background to get gold"

Postby ancient » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:51 am

Well I've no affiliation with RoSPA nor reputation to defend, but my questions would be the same whether this was an AD topic or anything else:
How did you hear of the examiner's response? Presumably from your instructor?
What was your instructor's attitude to the examiner's reported attitude?
Were these verbal exchanges or was anything in writing/email?

Understandably given what you have reported so far (and with no access to any other version), this has dented your confidence in the system of examination: At least I would take this up with RoSPA head office, but I would be sure to assemble any evidence I have first.

hir
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Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: ROSPA - "you need a place background to get gold"

Postby hir » Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:09 pm

ancient wrote:Well I've no affiliation with RoSPA nor reputation to defend, but my questions would be the same whether this was an AD topic or anything else:
How did you hear of the examiner's response? Presumably from your instructor?
What was your instructor's attitude to the examiner's reported attitude?
Were these verbal exchanges or was anything in writing/email?

Understandably given what you have reported so far (and with no access to any other version), this has dented your confidence in the system of examination: At least I would take this up with RoSPA head office, but I would be sure to assemble any evidence I have first.



Agreed. And if this "requirement for a police background before I'll award gold" is an accurate reflection of this particular examiner's attitude then the sooner RoSPA get rid of him the better. That attitude is almost too ignorant to be real! :cry:

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exportmanuk
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Re: ROSPA - "you need a place background to get gold"

Postby exportmanuk » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:10 pm

Unfortunately this is true of a small number of examiners IAM and Rospa. I put it down to an over inflated ego. I have in the past put formal complaints in over a couple of examiners from out of my area who behaved pretty much the same. I don't know about Rospa but I do know the IAM tell the examiners, if they are covering out of area they will get additional travel expenses. Of course they may not know your area so would find it a little more difficult to pick a route, but again they are serving or Ex police they should be capable of working something out. As for the standards there are criteria to meet if you perform to that level then you should receive the appropriate reward no matter what your background
Andrew Melton
Manchester 500

Smeeagain
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:52 pm

Re: ROSPA - "you need a place background to get gold"

Postby Smeeagain » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:22 pm

Thank you for all your replies.

Ok to the various questions raised. My instructor spoke verbally with the examiner, so nothing in writing. My instructor was very much taken aback and didn't challenge him on it but not the comments. he was loathe to share it with me, as he knew it might (and did) dent my confidence and/or annoy me (it did both in fact).

The comments could be construed not so much as you HAVE to have a police background but rather you need to be of the standard of a police driver. But either way, as far as I can establish, both comments aren't accurate, and by that I mean Rospa Gold standard may well be the same/similar as police driver but it isn't the stated criteria.

Since posting I have taken it forward thus. I called the head instructor for my area. at first they seemed to want to put their head in the sand and said they were sure the guy didn't really mean it and I should ignore it. However I said whether he meant it or not, or whether his comments have been misquoted or misconstrued, whatever has happened, the test has been compromised in my head. However the head instructor didn't want to take it up with the guy for fearing of losing an examiner as they're short of them!

I made the point that if I get a silver is it because that the standard I am or simply because he's prejudiced? If I get a gold is it because I deserved it or because I complained and he maybe thinks someone is watching over his shoulder and so it wasn't a truly worthwhile gold? On the flip side, and bearing in mind the examiner's decision is final, which I get given that there are no other witnesses, if I get bronze is it because he went out of his way to mark me down? Hence my comment about the test being compromised. I would always be thinking why did I get the result I got.

So,......it turns out the examiner for my area is coming back and my instructor has had six golds and one silver via him, so no prejudice there it would appear. The head instructor made couple of calls and has the test allocated back from the prejudiced guy to the guy I should have had and I can take the test in my own area.

The head instructor has acknowledged that 'they've had problems in the past with examiners' and the head instructor's own examiner on their first ROSPA test said he didn't hand out golds first time round ..... because he just didn't regardless of the standard of driving. So from my perspective, it has turned out well, but it's very sad that it won't be raised further or escalated nor will it be raised with the examiner in question It also means someone else may well suffer at the hands of his prejudice.

I have my test in a couple of weeks so we will see. Im tempted to contact the 'prejudiced' examiner after my test, regardless, of the result, and simply ask him, entirely politely, if he could elaborate upon his comments.

Thanks to everyone for their replies and support

Smee

Triquet
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Re: ROSPA - "you need a place background to get gold"

Postby Triquet » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:42 pm

I feel your worry, but don't let it get to you. Relax and give it your best shot. :gear:

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superplum
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Re: ROSPA - "you need a place background to get gold"

Postby superplum » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:43 pm

smeeagain

You have a PM

fungus
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Re: ROSPA - "you need a place background to get gold"

Postby fungus » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:05 pm

I would echo the sentiments of others regarding the examiner. However, although you may feel that it's an advantage taking a test on roads that you know, it shouldn't be a problem on unknown roads if you are up to standard. This may seem a harsh statement, but basically drive the road you see, not the road you know.

All the best for your test.

Nigel.

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angus
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Re: ROSPA - "you need a place background to get gold"

Postby angus » Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:26 pm

I would expect very few police to bother with RoSPA (or IAM) so it is probable that your instructor mis-understood (or mis-heard) the examiner's expectations and that the examiner meant that Gold is police standard (though around here most of the panda drivers aren't that good)

As for travel, most of my RoSPA tests have been in Chelmsford, 20 odd miles away, and when I was active in a group, the local examiners were based either in Chelmsford or Ipswich.


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