First Time Automatic Owner

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
IcedKiwi
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Re: First Time Automatic Owner

Postby IcedKiwi » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:28 am

Reg Local has given some thoughts about it in his book and a couple of threads on pistonheads.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=383133
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1597721

His advice is to remember that the DCT is not a traditional automatic with fluid coupling torque converter to smooth everything out but in fact a manual with an actuator to handle the clutch. Therefore you should be driving it like a manual, easing of the accelerator before upshifting, not trying to do creep in traffic etc. This is obviously a lot easier if you know when the gearbox is going to change gear and hence Reg recommends leaving it in manual mode the whole time.

Can't say that I've had any personal experience, and most of the advice applies to actually driving it rather than slow speed maneuvering.

For the hill starts are you coming off the brake or the handbrake? If it's handbrake, you could try reapplying the service brake, release the handbrake and then hill start. If you do it from a handbrake, I can imagine that it's using the handbrake pull away system rather than the hill start assist with the service brakes, and the handbrake (usually a drum brake) will have those couple of inches of play with them whilst the service brakes won't.

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ChristianAB
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Re: First Time Automatic Owner

Postby ChristianAB » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:31 am

Isn't it odd that the car manual wouldn't give all the information required to use the gearbox properly? Especially since this hill start/creeping thing is likely to be a common concern among the owners.
But then again, I'm biased against any technology which is able to turn a fully functioning and very skilled human into a largely redundant piece of flesh overnight.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: First Time Automatic Owner

Postby GTR1400MAN » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:02 am

That's so true ChristianAB. All of my discussion/queries would be solved if I knew that the handbrake disengages the clutch in the same way the footbrake does when stationary. I could/would then drive it like an automated manual. This is extra important as the EDC in the Renault uses dry clutches unlike other ones which run in oil like a bike clutch (which is more forgiving).

Like most manuals (paper/pdf things) nowadays they are useless. We are expected to work it our for ourselves. I grew up where the manual was definitive and told you everything you need to know. PS. It's no use me asking the salesman as they are just like everyone else and hold it on the brake pedal. I wonder how many dead clutches there will be from people who hold the car on a slight incline using the (limited) creep?

Interesting links IcedKiwi, but I'd take issue with Reg Local as one of the benefits of EDC/DCT is NOT having to lift on an up change. In full auto mode it certainly doesn't and it auto blips on down changes (if needed). As reg Local was writing in 2007 I think the viewpoint taken was heavily influenced by the single clutch, robot/hydraulic shifters, which were (are) truly automated manual transmissions.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: First Time Automatic Owner

Postby GTR1400MAN » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:08 pm

Here's an interesting article/topic on dual clutch driving. Post #33 on page 2 reflects my current understanding of how my car behaves.

Regarding my car rolling back on hills I'm going to try turning the stop/start off so that I can apply firm/hard brake pressure. I'm wondering if the Hill Assist isn't even activating due to my light brake pedal use (to avoid the engine shutting off).
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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exportmanuk
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Re: First Time Automatic Owner

Postby exportmanuk » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:09 pm

Hi
There are two major types of automatic around the conventional fluid flywheel type which as suggested you can use the foot brake to control the creep The other has a conventional flywheel ( dual mass) clutch controlled by computer ( Citroen C3-C4s have this type so the Renault may too) with this when you press the brake pedal is disengages drive. I think it is fairly standard conventional auto have a Park position on the gear stick the others have just forward neutral and revers. Conventional auto are much easier to control creep with.

Hill start assist I found you have to press the brake firmly before releasing and moving off.
Andrew Melton
Manchester 500

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: First Time Automatic Owner

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:13 pm

Update:

Hill Assist - Needs a HARD press to activate it, and then it works quite nicely ... as long as you are happy sitting on just the footbrake. As the Stop/Start is activated by a Firm press, this means the engine dies as you are on the hill ... unless you've had the forethought to turn it off. Sadly the EU emissions standard has meant this can't be done permanently, as even if you turn it off, it re-activates for your next journey.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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exportmanuk
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Re: First Time Automatic Owner

Postby exportmanuk » Fri Aug 05, 2016 11:11 am

GTR1400MAN wrote:Update:

Hill Assist - Needs a HARD press to activate it, and then it works quite nicely ... as long as you are happy sitting on just the footbrake. As the Stop/Start is activated by a Firm press, this means the engine dies as you are on the hill ... unless you've had the forethought to turn it off. Sadly the EU emissions standard has meant this can't be done permanently, as even if you turn it off, it re-activates for your next journey.


I found the same problem with the Citroen C4 I have a BMW1 now with a conventional auto which I find much better. Moving the gear shift left into semi sport mode turns off the stop start but still make all the changes automatically just means I unly use 7 not 8 gears but as most of the time I don't need 8th I find it a reasonable solution.

On the C4 you had to find the stop start cancel button which was some placed out of view
Andrew Melton
Manchester 500

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: First Time Automatic Owner

Postby GTR1400MAN » Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:27 pm

Well after a few days driving I thought I'd go direct to the manufacturer. On the Reanaultsport website they have an Ask the Experts page complete with a technical expert, so I posted the following:

GTR1400MAN wrote:I’ve just become the proud owner of a lovely red CLIO Renault Sport Nav 200 Auto with cup pack and black wheels. While I fully understand what a dual clutch is I am disappointed with the provided owners manual and the lack of explanation on how to use it on a day to day basis. Most people seem to treat them like old school slush boxes when driving in town. Can you please answer the following: Are the clutches completely disengaged when at a standstill with the footbrake depressed? Are the clutches completely disengaged when at a standstill with only the handbrake engaged? Should the handbrake only be used while also selecting Neutral? The car is fantastic in auto and manual mode on the open roads. I just need to know the best way to drive the thing in stop/start town traffic that we all encounter daily.

I deliberately asked the specific questions, rather than ask the 'stopped at traffic lights' question. Pretty comprehensive and not much wriggle room to not get the info I required ... or so I thought! Not one TECHNICAL question answered! :roll:

Renaultsport Technical Expert wrote:Thanks for your question and the description. Concerning the daily operation - In town, you don’t need to normally select neutral whilst stationary. It’s good practice to select neutral only if you’re going to be stationary for some time.

So I've just registered on the forum there to see if any of the owners can answer the question and point me to anything official to support their answers.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

waremark
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Re: First Time Automatic Owner

Postby waremark » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:34 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:
Renaultsport Technical Expert wrote:



Technical expert? In marketing, perhaps.

Your dealer's service manager might know the answers. Have you tried?

I think you should be able to tell if the clutch is fully disengaged in the different situations. I have not heard of clutches in dual-clutch cars wearing out. When I had a dual-clutch M3 I was satisfied that it did not experience wear when stopped either on foot-brake or parking brake. However, that car has a wet clutch.

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jont-
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Re: First Time Automatic Owner

Postby jont- » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:38 pm

waremark wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote:
Renaultsport Technical Expert wrote:



Technical expert? In marketing, perhaps.

Your dealer's service manager might know the answers. Have you tried?

:lol. I'd expect about the same level of "expertise". Main dealers these days are pretty much limited to plugging in a laptop and changing whichever box it tells them is broken :twisted:


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