What Happened?

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
fungus
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Location: Dorset

Re: What Happened?

Postby fungus » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:38 pm

Astraist wrote:It's not necessarily about taking it seriously.

As long as it is a branch of the legal system, it will forever be investigating collisions with the question to be answered being: "What legal offences were made en route to hitting the tree/wall/rock/car/truck/pedestrian?".

What is needed is an RTI that is set to answer the question "what would each road user involved could realistically do to avoid or mitigate the collision?"


And that's the relevant point.

It's no use saying after the collision "My lights were green, the other guy drove through on red" when most of the time you could have avoided the collision if you'd looked for "the other guy."

Nigel.

TheInsanity1234
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Re: What Happened?

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:33 pm

What you're all looking for is basically something like H.M. Inspectorate of Railways. I have a book called Red for Danger, written by L.T.C. Rolt, and he basically goes through the reports on accidents, submitted by the Chief Inspectors at the time of the accidents, and explains what could've been done to prevent the disasters.

It's actually a fantastically good read, even if you're not interested in railways! I must've read it about 10 times and counting!

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: What Happened?

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Tue May 31, 2016 10:20 am

TheInsanity1234 wrote:It's actually a fantastically good read, even if you're not interested in railways! I must've read it about 10 times and counting!

Second that, although I don't think I have a copy at present.
Nick

sussex2
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Re: What Happened?

Postby sussex2 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:41 am

Astraist wrote:It's not necessarily about taking it seriously.

As long as it is a branch of the legal system, it will forever be investigating collisions with the question to be answered being: "What legal offences were made en route to hitting the tree/wall/rock/car/truck/pedestrian?".

What is needed is an RTI that is set to answer the question "what would each road user involved could realistically do to avoid or mitigate the collision?"


Something along the lines of the AAIB (Air Accident Investigation Branch) perhaps? They do not apportion blame.
This however does not stop the media storm that often accompanies bad collisions.

Astraist
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Re: What Happened?

Postby Astraist » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:50 pm

Yes. I've always griped about how investigations of automobile collisions is unlike those of aircraft in that sense.

As for media coverage: I think there should be a bit less emphasis on the human tragedy element of it, and more analysing: The news could host an expert to comment not unlike what they do, for instance, with sports.

In the sort news coverage I see normally no clue is conveyed unto the mass awareness as to how the collision actually occured outside of a very vague description (like "head-on collision"). Luckily, the images tell a tale quite well if you have the time to inspect them properly.

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jont-
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Location: Herefordshire

Re: What Happened?

Postby jont- » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:57 pm

Astraist wrote:As for media coverage: I think there should be a bit less emphasis on the human tragedy element of it, and more analysing: The news could host an expert to comment not unlike what they do, for instance, with sports.

:lol: Next you'll be asking for politicians to work for the interests of their voters, not themselves :roll: The nearest any meedja in our country will get to quoting an "expert" is some do-gooder from Brake claiming that all motorvehicles are the spawn of the devil and we should have a man walking in front of them with a red flag.

Astraist
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Re: What Happened?

Postby Astraist » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:09 pm

You don't have to tell me. We have something of an equivalent to "Brake" here, too.

But what I am talking about is actually supplying the public with knowledge as to how a specific collision (obviously it needs to be a big one, rather than every one that happens on a daily basis) actually occurred.

It's actually a very interesting subject.

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akirk
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Location: Bristol

Re: What Happened?

Postby akirk » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:22 pm

I seem to remember something similar on the news when they had a big pileup in the fog on the 42 c. 20 years ago - i remember it because I came onto the junction just ahead of the accident to go to work and missed it all by minutes...

Alasdair

Astraist
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Re: What Happened?

Postby Astraist » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:36 pm

The closest I remember are two incidents.

One involved a minivan (with two passengers in excess of it's capacity :shock: ) which had brake fade going down from Safed to Tiberias. It had sprung over a concrete divider on one of the bends, killing all on board save one.

They also called the authorities for help so there was an audio piece associated with it. There were talks on how it happened and a reconstruction, as well as at least two senior Advanced Driving coaches giving their take on how the situation could have been managed.

I still felt that there was too much emphasis on the human tragedy, because it made people uneasy at applying blame unto the driver who, ultimately, did not know how to drive a car properly...

The other was a massive rear-end crash where an overloaded (70 tonne) gravel lorry also suffered brake fade on a downhill section coming into a built-up area and ran through two queues of cars pulled at two pursuant junctions. They did a short computer-generated reconstruction of the trajectory of the lorry.

sussex2
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Re: What Happened?

Postby sussex2 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:20 am

My father was one of the founders of a system called CHIRP (Confidential Human Factors Incident Reporting Protocol) which was introduced by the RAF to assist with safety.
Those who had a close call could use the system to report it without fearing disciplinary action.
I believe that some of the better airlines adopted the system which may or may not still be in use today.


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