What Happened?

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
User avatar
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
Posts: 1118
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:01 pm
Location: Swindon

Re: What Happened?

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:53 pm

No, HTH.

There are far too many of them, 90+% caused by driver error, and the only reason for apportioning blame is to decide whose insurance pays (it never results in further driver education, sadly). Car design improvements are being wrought separately anyway. If people were charged with some offence - DWDC, DD, etc. that actually only increases the cost to the taxpayer in the costs of the subsequent prosecution, so who would be paying for this new service? Answer - US! (those who don't cause the crashes).

The AAIB etc. are mainly motivated by the need to protect innocent travellers (of whom of course there are some in car crashes, although the majority of those injured / killed etc. are probably drivers as so high a proportion of our journeys are lone drivers), from the actions of negligent manufacturers / travel operators which doesn't really apply here.
Nick

User avatar
jont-
Posts: 1522
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:12 am
Location: Herefordshire

Re: What Happened?

Postby jont- » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:27 pm

martine wrote:So do people here think there should be a nationwide Road Accident Investigation Branch (like the Aviation: AAIB and Marine: MAIB) that would formally investigate all serious collisions, apportion blame and hand the details to the CPS as well as suggesting improvements in car design, road engineering, driver training etc?

No, but I do think anyone involved in a collision should be required to take further training. Of course the practical upshot of that would probably be a reduction in the number of accidents reported :roll:

User avatar
akirk
Posts: 1659
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:58 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: What Happened?

Postby akirk » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:45 pm

jont- wrote:
martine wrote:So do people here think there should be a nationwide Road Accident Investigation Branch (like the Aviation: AAIB and Marine: MAIB) that would formally investigate all serious collisions, apportion blame and hand the details to the CPS as well as suggesting improvements in car design, road engineering, driver training etc?

No, but I do think anyone involved in a collision should be required to take further training. Of course the practical upshot of that would probably be a reduction in the number of accidents reported :roll:



but how would you set that up?
- touch the dustbins on your drive when reversing on in the dark?
- slightly tap another car in a supermarket car park?
- minor hit on the roads?
- major hit on the roads?
arguably all are accidents which could have an insurance element...
also, everyone involved? so if you drive into the back of me when I am stationary at the lights - why do I need further training? The logic would be to base it on fault as apportioned by the insurance companies, but we all know that it will often go 50:50 due to lack of witnesses, not due to accurate allocation of blame...

the underlying concept does of course make sense!

Alasdair

waremark
Posts: 898
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:23 am

Re: What Happened?

Postby waremark » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:51 pm

martine wrote:So do people here think there should be a nationwide Road Accident Investigation Branch (like the Aviation: AAIB and Marine: MAIB) that would formally investigate all serious collisions, apportion blame and hand the details to the CPS as well as suggesting improvements in car design, road engineering, driver training etc?

I thought we had such an organisation.

As I understand it, a key difference between the folk who investigate road accidents and those who investigate air accidents is that the AAIB are not in the business of attributing blame, but only of discovering facts. I don't believe, as a matter of interest, that any charges have been brought against the pilot who crashed outside the Shoreham air show. If a lorry driver had been involved in an accident with such serious consequences it is almost certain that he would have been charged, unless it was unambiguously obvious that there was no culpability involved.

User avatar
Horse
Posts: 3558
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:20 am

Re: What Happened?

Postby Horse » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:05 pm

jont- wrote:
martine wrote:So do people here think there should be a nationwide Road Accident Investigation Branch (like the Aviation: AAIB and Marine: MAIB) that would formally investigate all serious collisions, apportion blame and hand the details to the CPS as well as suggesting improvements in car design, road engineering, driver training etc?

No, but I do think anyone involved in a collision should be required to take further training. Of course the practical upshot of that would probably be a reduction in the number of accidents reported :roll:


Got any proof that 'training' would improve driving standards? Training *what*, exactly?
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

Gareth
Posts: 980
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:44 pm
Location: Berkshire
Contact:

Re: What Happened?

Postby Gareth » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:26 pm

Horse wrote:Got any proof that 'training' would improve driving standards?

Out of interest, does anyone here know how accident statistics compare for young drivers with vs without a licence?
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

Silk
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:24 pm
Location: South Glos.

Re: What Happened?

Postby Silk » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:53 pm

martine wrote:So do people here think there should be a nationwide Road Accident Investigation Branch (like the Aviation: AAIB and Marine: MAIB) that would formally investigate all serious collisions, apportion blame and hand the details to the CPS as well as suggesting improvements in car design, road engineering, driver training etc?


They'd have to close the road for a bloody week! :evil:

User avatar
superplum
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:39 pm
Location: Above Suffolk

Re: What Happened?

Postby superplum » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:42 pm

jont- wrote: No, but I do think anyone involved in a collision should be required to take further training. Of course the practical upshot of that would probably be a reduction in the number of accidents reported :roll:


???? So if someone gets "rear-ended" for whatever reason, they need further training (I know that's extreme)? IMO that's nonsense. No amount of training gives competency. Education is another example - no amount of qualifications (degrees etc) gives competence, only a level of education.

:o

Astraist
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: What Happened?

Postby Astraist » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:35 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:No, HTH.

There are far too many of them, 90+% caused by driver error, and the only reason for apportioning blame is to decide whose insurance pays (it never results in further driver education, sadly). Car design improvements are being wrought separately anyway. If people were charged with some offence - DWDC, DD, etc. that actually only increases the cost to the taxpayer in the costs of the subsequent prosecution, so who would be paying for this new service? Answer - US! (those who don't cause the crashes).


Exactly.

I am fortunate enough to investigate collision not for the court of law but for pure preventative reasons - both in the interest of the general public and for car fleets.

Instead of looking for offences and "due care", I am looking for what each driver could have done (irregardless of the requirements of the law) to avoid (or at the very least significantly mitigate) the collision.

So if someone gets "rear-ended" for whatever reason, they need further training?


It can help. I have seen rear-end collisions avoided and coaching focused at preventing them at car fleets tends to results in decreases of the order of 50% and more.

User avatar
StressedDave
Posts: 428
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:27 am

Re: What Happened?

Postby StressedDave » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:30 am

Silk wrote:
martine wrote:So do people here think there should be a nationwide Road Accident Investigation Branch (like the Aviation: AAIB and Marine: MAIB) that would formally investigate all serious collisions, apportion blame and hand the details to the CPS as well as suggesting improvements in car design, road engineering, driver training etc?


They'd have to close the road for a bloody week! :evil:
It'd probably be a shorter time than it is now. A suitably funded AI unit with laser scanners, recovery trucks and a camera could clear up a scene far more quickly than today's efforts waiting for hookaway, total stations and waiting for Police photographers.
All posts are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License. Do what you like with it, just don't make money off it.


Return to “Advanced Driving - Cars”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests