What Happened?

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
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jont-
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Re: What Happened?

Postby jont- » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:34 am

sussex2 wrote:My father was one of the founders of a system called CHIRP (Confidential Human Factors Incident Reporting Protocol) which was introduced by the RAF to assist with safety.
Those who had a close call could use the system to report it without fearing disciplinary action.
I believe that some of the better airlines adopted the system which may or may not still be in use today.

Arguably when semi-autonomous cars get enough telemetry, this is what will happen anyway - the sensors will report back to the manufacturer and the neural networks will learn better pattern recognition. Effectively this is why google are driving around large fleets of [supervised] cars - to collect enough data. And what Tesla is letting their owners do for them. For example I imagine every time Tesla "autopilot" asks for human intervention it will record why it couldn't cope at that point in time.

sussex2
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Re: What Happened?

Postby sussex2 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:57 am

The system has been carried over to EASA the European aviation regulator, which is a good thing.
I'd imagine that given the amount of car journeys per hour/day it would not be worthwhile to record any but a very small percentage of incidents.
There can hardly be a journey any of us take that doesn't have moments of potential disaster or conflict in it; to record them all would surely not be practical or worthwhile.

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jont-
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Re: What Happened?

Postby jont- » Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:23 am

sussex2 wrote:The system has been carried over to EASA the European aviation regulator, which is a good thing.
I'd imagine that given the amount of car journeys per hour/day it would not be worthwhile to record any but a very small percentage of incidents.
There can hardly be a journey any of us take that doesn't have moments of potential disaster or conflict in it; to record them all would surely not be practical or worthwhile.

Why not? The point of "big data" is to slurp as much as you possibly can. If you're not slurping all of it, how do you know which incidents are valuable or that you're not missing something?

/slightly tangential - it will also make "avoiding the insurers" for a minor claim impossible - the black box will have recorded all of it, and quite possibly sent them the log before you have a chance to have a think about it.

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ChristianAB
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Re: What Happened?

Postby ChristianAB » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:01 pm

And thus the insurance companies will be puzzled and ponder over that small group of drivers who seem to travel at a much higher pace than average without ever having incidents.

sussex2
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Re: What Happened?

Postby sussex2 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:31 am

jont- wrote:
sussex2 wrote:The system has been carried over to EASA the European aviation regulator, which is a good thing.
I'd imagine that given the amount of car journeys per hour/day it would not be worthwhile to record any but a very small percentage of incidents.
There can hardly be a journey any of us take that doesn't have moments of potential disaster or conflict in it; to record them all would surely not be practical or worthwhile.

Why not? The point of "big data" is to slurp as much as you possibly can. If you're not slurping all of it, how do you know which incidents are valuable or that you're not missing something?

/slightly tangential - it will also make "avoiding the insurers" for a minor claim impossible - the black box will have recorded all of it, and quite possibly sent them the log before you have a chance to have a think about it.


Even in a short drive there will be dozens of situations in which a collision could occur, if yourself or another road user did not take some action.
In the confused and, may I say complex, average High Street with all the 'polite?' giving way and stopping and starting; the poor old machine is going to get a bit confused surely :)

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jont-
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Re: What Happened?

Postby jont- » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:36 am

sussex2 wrote:Even in a short drive there will be dozens of situations in which a collision could occur, if yourself or another road user did not take some action.
In the confused and, may I say complex, average High Street with all the 'polite?' giving way and stopping and starting; the poor old machine is going to get a bit confused surely :)

Oh yes. There was a video recently where a google car got "stuck" at a 4-way stop because there was a cyclist doing a stoppie (rather than putting their feet down), and kept twitching, so the car kept thinking the bike was about to go and refused to move (while the bike was giving way and waiting for the car to go :lol: )

sussex2
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Re: What Happened?

Postby sussex2 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:20 am

jont- wrote:
sussex2 wrote:Even in a short drive there will be dozens of situations in which a collision could occur, if yourself or another road user did not take some action.
In the confused and, may I say complex, average High Street with all the 'polite?' giving way and stopping and starting; the poor old machine is going to get a bit confused surely :)

Oh yes. There was a video recently where a google car got "stuck" at a 4-way stop because there was a cyclist doing a stoppie (rather than putting their feet down), and kept twitching, so the car kept thinking the bike was about to go and refused to move (while the bike was giving way and waiting for the car to go :lol: )


There would have to be some sort of cut off, a bit like a pilot taking control from the automation in certain circumstances.
I wonder what sort of message the car would send to the driver?
Something along the lines of 'You've got to drive now! Or 'Put that phone down and drive NOW! followed by 'I told you so' :)

Rolyan
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Re: What Happened?

Postby Rolyan » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:07 pm

ChristianAB wrote:And thus the insurance companies will be puzzled and ponder over that small group of drivers who seem to travel at a much higher pace than average without ever having incidents.

.......and the insurance companies will then ignore and dismiss the data, as it doesn't fit their preconceived ideas of the root cause of road accidents (or RTI for the politically correct).

waremark
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Re: What Happened?

Postby waremark » Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:20 pm

Rolyan wrote:
ChristianAB wrote:And thus the insurance companies will be puzzled and ponder over that small group of drivers who seem to travel at a much higher pace than average without ever having incidents.

.......and the insurance companies will then ignore and dismiss the data, as it doesn't fit their preconceived ideas of the root cause of road accidents (or RTI for the politically correct).

If a group with better than average claims ratios can be identified they will take an interest. They won't care what the reason is. But how would such a group be identified?

martine
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Re: What Happened?

Postby martine » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:41 pm

sussex2 wrote:
jont- wrote:
sussex2 wrote:Even in a short drive there will be dozens of situations in which a collision could occur, if yourself or another road user did not take some action.
In the confused and, may I say complex, average High Street with all the 'polite?' giving way and stopping and starting; the poor old machine is going to get a bit confused surely :)

Oh yes. There was a video recently where a google car got "stuck" at a 4-way stop because there was a cyclist doing a stoppie (rather than putting their feet down), and kept twitching, so the car kept thinking the bike was about to go and refused to move (while the bike was giving way and waiting for the car to go :lol: )


There would have to be some sort of cut off, a bit like a pilot taking control from the automation in certain circumstances.
I wonder what sort of message the car would send to the driver?
Something along the lines of 'You've got to drive now! Or 'Put that phone down and drive NOW! followed by 'I told you so' :)

And there in lies a significant problem...until cars are autonomous enough not to need to hand control back to a driver, ever, I think there's going to be that awkward and dangerous half-way house. The biggest problem is going to be the driver losing interest and open the laptop in the belief they won't be needed until...suddenly...the computer utters "you have control" :gear:
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer, Group Secretary, Masters (dist), DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)


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