Making space at junctions

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
japitts
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Making space at junctions

Postby japitts » Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:59 pm

I posted this over on ADUK (and had one helpful reply from Gareth), before becoming aware that a lot of the regulars had moved over here...

Here's a scenario I've had a few times but got tooted at for yesterday morning in commuter-traffic.

So you're in a stop-start (or slow crawl) queue of traffic along "main" road, and there's a minor road turning off this road. When you get to the point where you can't progress further without blocking the junction, I tend to hold back before the "T" in order to keep it clear, only progressing when I can then clear the junction entirely.
Occasionally this means you end up waiting a little while if there's a steady stream of drivers emerging, I've even seen people go completely offside past a few cars to save their few minutes wait to reach a turn-right.

But..yesterday morning...I was getting tooted at by a van that was probably inches from my back bumper. I could see they were positioning to go round my offside, but were so close they'd have needed to reverse first. Anyhow, it turned out they wanted to turn left into said junction. In my defence they were so close I couldn't see any of their lights or indicators, and the toots had an air of impatience about them.

So I got thinking afterwards, that had I moved forward to allow them through, I would have ended up blocking the entry for anyone coming from the other direction and wanting to turn right - thus causing an onward blockage.
I'm not sure how I could have handled this better... what might others have done?

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Making space at junctions

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:11 pm

Sometimes you can't kick against the pricks. If someone's tooting, you may have to go against your principles to calm them down. In this case the reason would have been revealed as soon as you moved. If someone had then come along to turn right - well, you wouldn't have been in the ideal position, and they'd have had to wait until a gap developed for you to move forwards into, but hey, that's life!

In this country people don't generally toot just out of sheer impatience, unlike, say, Italy, so maybe look for a reason and see if there's a blockage you can clear.
Nick

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Horse
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Re: Making space at junctions

Postby Horse » Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:21 pm

I like a well-used, but rude-sounding, biblical quote :)
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akirk
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Re: Making space at junctions

Postby akirk » Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:28 pm

welcome to ADHub :)

I think that you have to make a judgement for each scenario:
- is the traffic ahead of you moving relatively fast (i.e. low risk you will block someone turning) - move and give space
- is the turning across (for which you are giving space) a well used turning - possibly better to leave the space
- is the person behind being civilised (leaving space behind you, little toot on horn to see if you can do something, polite hand gestures) or being obnoxious (close up behind you, un-necessarily long use of horn, not such polite hand gestures) - and act accordingly :) I am always helpful towards polite people!

ultimately, leaving space for turning traffic is not bad driving - the opposite in fact, and it is your choice, so not up to another driver to tell you what to do - don't let bullies reign the roads... if you were a police car, would they be honking at you to move?!

Alasdair

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Adamxck
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Re: Making space at junctions

Postby Adamxck » Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:59 pm

Having been caught out by this in the past, i now double check for indicators in the mirrors on approach to a junction mouth. If nothing there, I'll do as you do and leave a gap.

If somebody is indicating, I'll move and 'block' the mouth unless it's a 'keep clear' in which case they can beep at me all day long.

If an oncomer wants to turn then I'll pop up a hand to placate them. You cant please everyone.
Adam.

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StressedDave
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Re: Making space at junctions

Postby StressedDave » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:23 am

My view is this:

1. Every time you stop in traffic you send a 'shockwave' of stationary moving back at 2-3mph. The longer the time you spend stopped the better for the wellbeing (not least in terms of blood pressure). If it is the case that traffic will clear in front of you then every little shockwave is an extra delay.
2. If traffic that wishes to emerge has somewhere to go and you don't then by all means keep the junction clear. If they haven't, fuck 'em and block the junction. It may not be politically correct, but I don't care.

FWIW, I have this particular scenario every day. 2 miles of slow moving traffic caused by someone 20 minutes ago sending a shockwave back because they thought they'd be friendly and let a car out from a junction to block the road because they could only get halfway across.

Drivers need more instruction in fluid mechanics in my view.
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Horse
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Re: Making space at junctions

Postby Horse » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:09 am

I regularly encounter this on the M4, where a shockwave of stopped traffic has propagated upstream from J12 congestion, so that mid-way between J13-J12 the flow comes to a halt, then clears.

Typically, on mways, it's moving upstream at 20kph*.





* https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... irst-time/ **

** Although, according to a guy who I heard give a presentation about this, it's 20-25kph
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StressedDave
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Re: Making space at junctions

Postby StressedDave » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:37 am

War story time (I can't remember if I've related this before or not, but sod it)...

I was called out in the middle of the night to a nasty (but common) accident on the M25. A broken down lorry was being recovered off the hard shoulder when a fatigued lorry driver drifted wide and slammed into the lorry being recovered (which was full of fish, and on the August Bank Holiday weekend too, but I digress).

We closed two lanes (and indeed stopped traffic in lane 3 on occasion to measure something) on the A track and the B track was running clear. Right up until 1100 when a driver virtually stopped in lane 3 to have a good gawp at the unidentified fish parts strewn across the carriageway. I happily watched all three lanes shockwave backwards to a point beyond the visible horizon (Bank Holiday weekend, remember), measuring 8 miles in length and increasing (people arriving at 70mph at the back, but only clearing at 20 kph off the front) when I left site a couple of hours later. Luckily I was heading along the A-track and had minimal traffic.

For those not aware, the A track is the carriageway on a motorway in the direction of increasing junction number. So on the M25 that is the clockwise carriageway. Bit like up and down on the railway, which is why you should say down to London and back up.
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Horse
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Re: Making space at junctions

Postby Horse » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:47 am

I remember it as 'Away from London Back to London'. Sod all use for working out which way the M25 A & B carriageways go . . . :)

And extra confusing when you get to junctions, and J, K, L & M come into play . . .
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StressedDave
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Re: Making space at junctions

Postby StressedDave » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:10 pm

Nah, just use on- and off- and then track...
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