Roundabout 450?

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
hir
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby hir » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:15 am

jont- wrote:Ok, but if we want jobsworth policemen using that law, can we also prosecute everyone who doesn't accelerate at a decent rate down a sliproad under "unnecessarily slow driving" (and in fact that also seems to cover all the people driving under the speed limit when conditions would clearly allow much higher speeds). I look forward to seeing speed cameras for the coffin dodgers emerging soon. Should be a great revenue earner :twisted:


The regulation in question is a "catch-all" type of regulation, to be invoked when "the man on the Clapham omnibus" might deem it appropriate to invoke it. It's not intended as a jobsworth policeman's fast track route to becoming Chief Superintendent.

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Horse
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby Horse » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:30 am

hir wrote:
akirk wrote:I think misuse would have to be to use a lane for a non-intended purpose
e.g. cycle lane with car in it / hard shoulder for general driving / etc.
not using a lane and going around a roundabout following all the highway code
would be very surprised if that could stick!

Alasdair


I think you have to read the whole sentence to gain its intended meaning, not just one word. The whole sentence is:

"misuse of any lane (including cycling lanes) to avoid queuing or gain some other advantage over other drivers;"

Lane two is not generally regarded as being intended for use by anyone wishing to turn left. Hence the "misuse" of lane two if its use is intended to facilitate turning left.



I was intending to turn right at the roundabout.

I changed my mind whilst in the right hand lane of the roundabout, and selected a different exit.

;)
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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akirk
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby akirk » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:29 pm

hir wrote:
akirk wrote:I think misuse would have to be to use a lane for a non-intended purpose
e.g. cycle lane with car in it / hard shoulder for general driving / etc.
not using a lane and going around a roundabout following all the highway code
would be very surprised if that could stick!

Alasdair


I think you have to read the whole sentence to gain its intended meaning, not just one word. The whole sentence is:

"misuse of any lane (including cycling lanes) to avoid queuing or gain some other advantage over other drivers;"

Lane two is not generally regarded as being intended for use by anyone wishing to turn left. Hence the "misuse" of lane two if its use is intended to facilitate turning left. For the accusation to stick, the "misuse" must have the intention behind it to... "avoid queuing or gain some other advantage over other drivers". Which it does, viz. "avoiding a queue" of other vehicles waiting in turn to turn left.


I think that I would read it differently...
the operative word is 'to' not 'by'
so the misuse is separate from the outcome - i.e. it is not misuse of any lane by avoiding queuing / etc.
so the avoiding queuing etc. doesn't cause the misuse, it is when the two are put together that you have an issue...
so you have to look at what misuse is separate from the outcome, and use of a hard shoulder / bus lane / cycle lane etc. is misuse in its own right...

it basically says that when you have misuse for the purpose of gaining advantage, that is an issue, whereas presumably misuse for another purpose (e.g. puncture / breakdown / dropoff / etc. might be allowed) there is nowhere that I know of in the HC which actually prohibits avoiding queuing / gaining advantage over others... it is only in putting the two together...

therefore as the lane is designed for cars to drive along and progress onto the roundabout, its use for that purpose is not misuse, so no issue

Alasdair

TheInsanity1234
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:53 pm

This is what I would've considered an inconvenience:

In the video above, you can tell that pretty much all the traffic in the left lane are intending to go straight on, and so by looping the roundabout, you're 'jumping the queue', and inconveniencing people who are going straight on.

However, if you used the right lane to circle around a roundabout in order to take a minor exit on the left, and thus aren't jumping a queue as such, it wouldn't be such a problem.

I dunno, just my 2 penny's worth.

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Adamxck
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby Adamxck » Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:21 am

Im not sure there is any need to call them peasants. Then again it'll get her more clicks.

At least she didn't cut in front of the learner, which she could have done from that position. Many would have.
Adam.

cliftonite
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby cliftonite » Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:16 pm

I use this technique at a roundabout I come to occasionally. Although most people there wish to go straight on (I wish to turn left) and there are two lanes for them, the outer lane is little used as the dreaded ' merge in turn' is needed on exit. By doing the full circuit of the (smallish, not mini-) roundabout to turn left I get past the selfish (?) straight-on chaps who are incapable of using a lane that would benefit them, me and all those behind them in the queue.

Speary
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby Speary » Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:55 am

How about this example:
Two lanes at traffic lights, left lane straight on, right lane, right turn only, indicated by a painted arrow on the road. Should you go straight on in the right lane if there was lots of traffic in lane 1.
Assume there are 2 lanes through the lights that merge into 1 after about 75 yards

Regarding the law stated above, I like to think of advanced driving as driving smart, particularly in towns and busy situations, where I don't get caught behind a bus, don't get stuck in the wrong lane etc and generally make good progress. Could others see this as queue jumping, smugness,arrogance etc rather than a good driver making progress. Also where practical I help others to make progress although they will never know this.

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Adamxck
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby Adamxck » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:02 am

I'd say that was a bit naughty and would require a less than inconspicuous traffic light grand Prix. Then again if it's against Mildred in her Micra....

(No offence meant to the well meaning Mildreds of the world.)
Adam.

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akirk
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby akirk » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:40 pm

Not an unknown situation :) you just need to have good reactions, and a fast car :) if you get well ahead of the first car in the left lane, no issue, if you only just get ahead, then it is a bit borderline, if they beat you it could get embarrassing!
Alasdair

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Adamxck
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby Adamxck » Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:41 pm

akirk wrote: if they beat you it could get embarrassing!
Alasdair


This is the point I was skirting around but never made. If you 'lose' the sprint off the line, what is your plan? Turn right presumably?
Adam.


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