Roundabout 450?

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
hir
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby hir » Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:47 pm

akirk wrote:I think misuse would have to be to use a lane for a non-intended purpose
e.g. cycle lane with car in it / hard shoulder for general driving / etc.
not using a lane and going around a roundabout following all the highway code
would be very surprised if that could stick!

Alasdair


I think you have to read the whole sentence to gain its intended meaning, not just one word. The whole sentence is:

"misuse of any lane (including cycling lanes) to avoid queuing or gain some other advantage over other drivers;"

Lane two is not generally regarded as being intended for use by anyone wishing to turn left. Hence the "misuse" of lane two if its use is intended to facilitate turning left. For the accusation to stick, the "misuse" must have the intention behind it to... "avoid queuing or gain some other advantage over other drivers". Which it does, viz. "avoiding a queue" of other vehicles waiting in turn to turn left.

If the action becomes too blatant and a bit notorious, by which I mean: if you do it every day; if a member of the public queuing to turn left sees you doing it regularly; if that member of the public takes umbrage; if other "left-turners" join in the ruse; and, if that member of the public complains to the local constabulary giving them registration numbers and descriptions of vehicles, the local constabulary might send someone to have a look and see if an offence of... driving without reasonable consideration , in this case queue jumping, is being committed.

Just a thought. :D

fungus
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby fungus » Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:51 pm

Matt1962 wrote:On my way to work I have a left turn at a roundabout, taking me off a busy stretch of Dual Carriageway. The DC ends just after the roundabout and traffic is often static and backed up in the left hand lane waiting to go straight on. The right hand lane is generally completely clear - few people turn right (or left) at this point.
If the left lane is blocked I tend to move into the right lane and do a complete circuit of the roundabout to take my left turn. My view is that this manouevre is safe, logical and actually helpful to other traffic (reducing the queue waiting to go straight on). It would clearly not be acceptable to use it to try to go straight on, but what do others think about what I am doing? On a ROADAR or IAM test would it be frowned upon or maybe even required (taking every opportunity to maintain progress)?


Sounds very much like the Bear Cross Roundabout where the A341 crosses the A348 Poole to Ferndown road here, https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.76954 ... a=!3m1!1e3
It's quite common to see drivers going 450, or even 540 degrees by using the right turn lane to avoid the queueing traffic going left or ahead.

Nigel.
Last edited by fungus on Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

waremark
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby waremark » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:27 pm

I think it is acceptable to take a shortcut, and so get ahead of other traffic going the same way. I suggest that doing a full circuit of the roundabout is just another way of taking a shortcut.

Black Cat
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby Black Cat » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:50 pm

fungus wrote:
Matt1962 wrote:On my way to work I have a left turn at a roundabout, taking me off a busy stretch of Dual Carriageway. The DC ends just after the roundabout and traffic is often static and backed up in the left hand lane waiting to go straight on. The right hand lane is generally completely clear - few people turn right (or left) at this point.
If the left lane is blocked I tend to move into the right lane and do a complete circuit of the roundabout to take my left turn. My view is that this manouevre is safe, logical and actually helpful to other traffic (reducing the queue waiting to go straight on). It would clearly not be acceptable to use it to try to go straight on, but what do others think about what I am doing? On a ROADAR or IAM test would it be frowned upon or maybe even required (taking every opportunity to maintain progress)?


Sounds very much like the Bear Cross Roundabout where the A341 crosses the A348 Poole to Ferndown road here, https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.76954 ... a=!3m1!1e3
I'ts quite common to see drivers going 450, or even 540 degrees by using the right turn lane to avoid the queueing traffic going left or ahead.

Nigel.


Indeed, but there it is very much to gain advantage, especially the 540 to continue up Ringwood Road towards Longham, not so many turn down towards Canford Magna, but still a fair few do.

Personally it makes sense to me and if everyone did it, the traffic flow would be better balanced. There are good and bad ways of doing it though: those that look controlled and thoughtful, and then there is the hoon it around the roundabout on two wheels (in a 4 wheeled vehicle for the avoidance of doubt) approach which is the one most seem to take to draw maximum attention to their cheekiness.

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R_U_LOCAL
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby R_U_LOCAL » Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:29 pm

I have no issues with the scenario described by the OP. It's an intelligent use of a junction to make some progress and it's a technique I occasionally use myself on a couple of roundabouts on my commute.

It most certainly would not constitute a section 3 offence by any stretch of the imagination and anyone submitting such a complaint would be shown the police station exit very quickly.

You're not using the right-hand lane to turn left (which could, potentially constitute a section 3 offence). You're actually using the right-hand lane to turn right.

Just really, really right.

I've never been peeved by anyone getting ahead of me using this technique - I've always thought "nice one" and stored it in the experience bank for next time.

Maybe I'll do a youtube video on how to turn really, really right!
Reg Local - author of "Advanced & Performance Driving" http://tinyurl.com/qbxwocx

chriskay
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby chriskay » Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:13 am

I sometimes use the technique at the entrance to a shopping estate near me and certainly don't think I'm committing any offence.
To quote the sentence in question: "misuse of any lane (including cycling lanes) to avoid queuing or gain some other advantage over other drivers". Since I'm actually turning right; really right as Reg. points out, I'm not committing an offence by using the RH lane on the approach. I may indeed be using a lane to gain an advantage, but I'm not misusing it.
Carpe diem

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby Strangely Brown » Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:58 am

I think this, rather important point, has been overlooked.

"In cases of inconsiderate driving, there must be evidence that some other user of the road or public place was actually inconvenienced; Dilks v Bowman-Shaw [1981] RTR 4 DC"

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StressedDave
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby StressedDave » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:33 am

<pedant>Anyone doing a 450 would end up doing an extra circuit of the roundabout</pedant> Would I do it? I doubt I'd ever be in enough of a hurry to want to save a few minutes...
All posts are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License. Do what you like with it, just don't make money off it.

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jont-
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby jont- » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:00 am

Ok, but if we want jobsworth policemen using that law, can we also prosecute everyone who doesn't accelerate at a decent rate down a sliproad under "unnecessarily slow driving" (and in fact that also seems to cover all the people driving under the speed limit when conditions would clearly allow much higher speeds). I look forward to seeing speed cameras for the coffin dodgers emerging soon. Should be a great revenue earner :twisted:

hir
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby hir » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:09 am

Strangely Brown wrote:I think this, rather important point, has been overlooked.

"In cases of inconsiderate driving, there must be evidence that some other user of the road or public place was actually inconvenienced; Dilks v Bowman-Shaw [1981] RTR 4 DC"


When someone is seen to be jumping a queue, most of the drivers who are patiently waiting their turn will feel that they have been inconvenienced, as well as a lot of other emotions which I shan't elaborate upon as this is a family forum. :lol:

The definition of inconvenience can include; bothersome, disruptive; disadvantageous; tiresome; irritating; annoying. There's plenty there for the Magistrates' to get their teeth into as they ponder over the 3 points to be awarded. It would not be too difficult to gather some evidence if a MOP felt so inclined to report it to the BiB, and the BiB were inclined to follow it up. The trigger for the Bib would be if there was evidence that the practice is, or might, lead to a bit of bother, or road rage, on the part of those who feel "inconvenienced". :o

But, I agree, this would have to be a "bit of a problem" at a specific location before the the BiB would want to get involved.


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