Roundabout 450?

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
Matt1962
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Roundabout 450?

Postby Matt1962 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:22 pm

On my way to work I have a left turn at a roundabout, taking me off a busy stretch of Dual Carriageway. The DC ends just after the roundabout and traffic is often static and backed up in the left hand lane waiting to go straight on. The right hand lane is generally completely clear - few people turn right (or left) at this point.
If the left lane is blocked I tend to move into the right lane and do a complete circuit of the roundabout to take my left turn. My view is that this manouevre is safe, logical and actually helpful to other traffic (reducing the queue waiting to go straight on). It would clearly not be acceptable to use it to try to go straight on, but what do others think about what I am doing? On a ROADAR or IAM test would it be frowned upon or maybe even required (taking every opportunity to maintain progress)?

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Horse
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby Horse » Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:26 pm

I think it's taking the p1$$ out of other road users.

So I don't do it too often, or on small roundabouts where it's really obvious to them ;)

Also, I've gone off at a junction and re-joined from an on-slip to avoid queues on the main carriageway :)
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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akirk
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby akirk » Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:40 pm

it is one of those things where:
- it is totally legal
- it will annoy other road users irrationally
- if everyone did it you would be back to square 1 in terms of time to get through to your destination, but additionally you would block up the roundabout and the right hand lane in the approach...
- ultimately though you are simply doing it to jump the queue which is not very British :D
I think there might be slight IAM / ROADAR frowns as courtesy and allowing for other road users is a part of advanced driving...

on a related issue though - if the exit straight ahead is empty and the left lane is simply being held up by those turning left I would absolutely use the right lane to go straight ahead... why not - it would reduce the queue for those turning left / not be queue jumping / everyone else could do the same / it keeps traffic moving / etc. - just be careful to ensure that you don't upset other road users who are not expecting it, but not difficult to come onto a roundabout in the right lane and exit straight ahead if you drive it well...

regards

Alasdair

IcedKiwi
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby IcedKiwi » Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:04 pm

akirk wrote:ultimately though you are simply doing it to jump the queue which is not very British :D

And then
akirk wrote:if the exit straight ahead is empty and the left lane is simply being held up by those turning left I would absolutely use the right lane to go straight ahead


What's the difference for him wanting to turn left when everyone is going straight ahead, to you going straight ahead when everyone is turning left? Both of you are using an empty lane to get to the roundabout earlier and neither of you are jumping in front of anyone because they're all going in a different direction.

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Adamxck
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby Adamxck » Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:11 pm

I do it almost every time I drive home from work. I'm sure none of the people in the 'left' lane even notice. I call it using forward observation and advanced planning to make progress. Others would call it 'cheating'.

It's like driving all the way down the merging lane at a merge in turn, rather than joining the back of the 'ahead' lane as early as possible. Other people hate it and do the bumper to bumper dance with the car in front to stop you stealing their spot.

It's not cricket, but it's faster.
Adam.

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akirk
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby akirk » Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:24 pm

IcedKiwi wrote:
akirk wrote:ultimately though you are simply doing it to jump the queue which is not very British :D

And then
akirk wrote:if the exit straight ahead is empty and the left lane is simply being held up by those turning left I would absolutely use the right lane to go straight ahead


What's the difference for him wanting to turn left when everyone is going straight ahead, to you going straight ahead when everyone is turning left? Both of you are using an empty lane to get to the roundabout earlier and neither of you are jumping in front of anyone because they're all going in a different direction.


- oops, mis-read it :D
I thought it was the left turning which was static, not the straight on!

in which case - no issues, carry on :D

Alasdair

hir
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby hir » Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:03 pm

If there are vehicles queuing in lane 1 who are waiting to turn left you might be committing an offence under the following ( see the second example given below - the one about misusing a lane to gain advantage).

Extract from CPS website:

Driving without reasonable consideration

The offence of driving without reasonable consideration under section 3 of the RTA 1988 is committed only when other persons are inconvenienced by the manner of the defendants driving, see section 3ZA(4) RTA 1988.

The maximum penalty is a level 5 fine. The court must also either endorse the drivers licence with between 3 and 9 penalty points (unless there are "special reasons" not to do so), or impose disqualification for a fixed period and/or until a driving test has been passed. The penalty is the same as for driving without due care and attention.

A driving without due consideration charge is more appropriate where the inconvenience is aimed at and suffered by other road users.

Note the essential difference between the two offences under section 3 of the RTA 1988 is that in cases of careless driving the prosecution need not show that any other person was inconvenienced. In cases of inconsiderate driving, there must be evidence that some other user of the road or public place was actually inconvenienced; Dilks v Bowman-Shaw [1981] RTR 4 DC

Charging Practice

This offence is appropriate when the driving amounts to a clear act of incompetence, selfishness, impatience or aggressiveness in addition to some other inconvenience to road users. The following examples are typical of actions likely to be regarded as inconsiderate driving:

flashing of lights to force other drivers in front to give way;
misuse of any lane (including cycling lanes) to avoid queuing or gain some other advantage over other drivers;
unnecessarily remaining in an overtaking lane;
unnecessarily slow driving or braking without good cause;
driving with un-dipped headlights which dazzle oncoming drivers, cyclists or pedestrians;
driving through a puddle causing pedestrians to be splashed;
driving a bus in such a way as to alarm passengers.

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Adamxck
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby Adamxck » Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:16 pm

I'd suggest that would be more suited to using the hard shoulder when a motorway is at a standstill, only because I don't want it to be true for this example. Also, I wouldn't call it selfish, impatient or aggressive, just logical, Mr. Spock.

Although, "Sorry officer, I didn't know which exit I needed so went around to read the signs" might work. Or is that incompetence?

Sometimes I like learning new things, other times I don't.
Adam.

Matt1962
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby Matt1962 » Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:46 pm

I suppose 'misuse' would be the key word? In my example I avoid the queue but don't inconvenience anyone (in fact I marginally reduce the size of the queue). In the unlikely event that someone else is waiting to turn left then I could 'gain an advantage' but they could just follow my example and save themselves some time.

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akirk
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Re: Roundabout 450?

Postby akirk » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:34 pm

I think misuse would have to be to use a lane for a non-intended purpose
e.g. cycle lane with car in it / hard shoulder for general driving / etc.
not using a lane and going around a roundabout following all the highway code
would be very surprised if that could stick!

Alasdair


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