Roundabout indicating

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
Carbon Based
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Location: London

Re: Roundabout indicating

Postby Carbon Based » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:05 pm

waremark wrote:In any test I would do it pedantically correctly. That means not touching the paint...


During my post IAM test discussion, my examiner commented that I was probably a bit too respectful of roundabout white paint and to consider taking a better line if safe to do so and without causing confusion. Granted, this was aimed not so much mini but larger, multi lane RABs but is it really any different?

What offence would actually be committed by crossing the white paint of a mini roundabout - assuming you don't go the wrong way round in order to cut someone up?

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dvenman
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Re: Roundabout indicating

Postby dvenman » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:16 am

Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men, someone told me once.

If contravening the Highway Code to clip a bit of paint is the worse one does or sees on a journey, whether done to minimise conflict with another vehicle wanting to negotiate the roundabout, to make your passengers more comfortable, or whatever, then you're lucky.

chriskay
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Location: Shrewsbury

Re: Roundabout indicating

Postby chriskay » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:07 am

Carbon Based wrote:
waremark wrote:In any test I would do it pedantically correctly. That means not touching the paint...


During my post IAM test discussion, my examiner commented that I was probably a bit too respectful of roundabout white paint and to consider taking a better line if safe to do so and without causing confusion. Granted, this was aimed not so much mini but larger, multi lane RABs but is it really any different?

What offence would actually be committed by crossing the white paint of a mini roundabout - assuming you don't go the wrong way round in order to cut someone up?


Highway Code:
Rule 188
Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.

The "MUST" means it's mandatory and it's an offence to drive over it.
When your examiner talked of white paint on multi lane roundabouts, he was probably thinking of lane lines.
Carpe diem

true blue
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Re: Roundabout indicating

Postby true blue » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:12 am

Indeed - I don't recall ever seeing a multi-lane roundabout with just a painted rather than raised central area.

Black Cat
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Re: Roundabout indicating

Postby Black Cat » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:30 pm

true blue wrote:Indeed - I don't recall ever seeing a multi-lane roundabout with just a painted rather than raised central area.


Come down to Bournemouth - we have several.

e.g. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.7458504,-1.9428689,190m/data=!3m1!1e3

Pontoneer
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Re: Roundabout indicating

Postby Pontoneer » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:24 pm

Adamxck wrote:I have trouble with this roundabout from every angle. My Grandad lives in the cream house with the terracotta roof.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.45873 ... 312!8i6656

As you can see, it's right between two mini roundabouts. Approaching from the left requires an early signal and a very slow approach as cars following me assume I'm indicating for the next roundabout to take a left up the opposing hill. They get rather annoyed at my crawl, but better that than they hit me from behind.

Coming from down the afore mentioned hill, they assume my indicator hasn't switched off from the first roundabout and expect me to go straight ahead, again, slowing early is my preferred option. Making it clear I'm doing something abnormal.

The worst position is the one shown from the map link. Coming down the hill and needing to go straight over. No signal on approach followed by a left confuses everybody and a right followed by a quick left never gets noticed. I'm almost always closed upon by cars to my left when I'm coming off the roundabout onto the drive. They assume I'm going right so pull away, only to find I'm driving right in front of them.

With the roof down in the summer, (because daylight, not the cold. I have a hat.) I tend to point at my desired destination which tends to work if the other drivers decide to take notice.

Any ideas for easing the situation?


Hi , I just discovered this 'new' forum , after being on the 'old' forum which seemed to die off a year or two back .

Nice to see most of the familiar names on here . :D

One thing I'd like to chip in here is the use of hand signals to augment or emphasise a mechanical signal already given ; this was regularly taught under the old six-feature system when there was an initial 'mirrors , signals and speed' at feature two ; then a further 'mirrors and signals' at feature four ( intended to either give a signal that wasn't previously required , or to emphasise a signal already given ) .

An example I often give is when approaching my place of work , with it involving a right turn across a two lane dual carriageway : I often find myself in the right hand lane , trafficating right for following traffic , but at the same time passing slower traffic in the left lane ( it is uphill in a 40 limit and some vehicles are significantly slower , so I can have someone bearing down behind me , at times even in excess of the limit ) ; as well as giving an early right turn signal as soon as I pass the previous gap in the central reservation , if someone is closing on me from behind , I will also give a right turn hand signal to emphasise I am actually turning right and not just overtaking slower traffic .


Another place I regularly give hand signals is approaching my home , which is by the side of the A737 in North Ayrshire in a NSL section : if approaching from the east , there is a minor road on the left immediately before my house and no visibility into or out of it until the last moment . Depending on the circumstances with other traffic , I tend to either open up a gap from following traffic so that I can slow to stop and reverse into my drive before they catch up , or if that isn't possible ( bearing in mind that a left turn signal on the approach , given that someone might appear in the mouth of the junction and assume , wrongly , that I am turning in there , is inadvisable ) I slow gradually and early , slowing the following traffic with me , and give a 'I am slowing down' hand signal on the approach , then put on a left trafficator as soon as it is obvious I'm not turning into the junction , before either moving onto the paved area in front of my house , or if that area is already occupied , stopping as tight into the left as I can , in readiness to reverse into my drive . I always reverse in as reversing out blind onto a main road isn't an option .

Re Titian's mini-roundabout scenario , it should be remembered that there is an 'I intend to go straight ahead' hand signal - normally intended for giving to police officers on points duty , but can just as well be given to other road users .

Pontoneer
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Re: Roundabout indicating

Postby Pontoneer » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:32 pm

titian wrote:Strangely Brown said:-
That means the same rules for signalling apply too. i.e. You don't get to just make up your own signals and hope that everyone else knows what you mean. Signalling right on the approach to a roundabout means that you will be going round it, NOT straight on. It is a misleading signal


No signals were invented in the answering of this topic!

Re-read the scenario, entering the mini RAB from 6 with the intention of leaving at 12, to accomplish that I am driving around the white paint in the middle of the road, sometimes it's a quite small dot (easy) sometimes it's more expansive white paint (difficult). All this happens in split seconds - on entering the RAB I am aware of "the white van man" chomping at the bit to emerge onto the RAB from 9 - he's looking at me - my wheels are indicating that I am turning left, (to negotiate the RAB, NOT TO ENTER THE JUNCTION WHERE HE IS EMERGING FROM), I need to inform him that I am passing in front of his vehicle and require him to stay exactly where he is until I have passed. What is an appropriate way of giving white van man information that he understands and will make (my) progress around the RAB safer? Well, a few flashes of my right indicator.

I am giving information that confirms that I am not turning left and white van man is less likely to jump out ahead of me - remember it's a mini RAB very little space and time to make these decisions.

If a vehicle is waiting to emerge from 12, once I have passed 9 a breakaway signal is appropriate.


As per my post above .... IF you make eye contact with WVM , give the ' I intend to go straight ahead ' hand signal : left arm facing straight up , palm forwards , inside your windscreen .

Giving hand signals , so that you could show you knew and understood them , was part of the driving test when I sat mine , and IMO , it still ought to be .

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Roundabout indicating

Postby GTR1400MAN » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:12 pm

Interesting point on hand signals. I often backup an indicator on the motorcycle with a hand signal. Indicators are often hidden by sun, angle of approach and you can only signal once (left hand signal to enter services immediately after taking a left exit on a RAB. Not so in the car though.

How many drivers would even know what a slowing down arm signal means if the car in front did it? Though it would probably get their attention as they would wonder what on earth the driver in front was doing. :)
Mike Roberts

Pontoneer
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Re: Roundabout indicating

Postby Pontoneer » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:50 pm

Indeed , my main worry ( in the mini-roundabout scenario ) would be WVM , in the first place not seeing my signal , hence the comment about eye contact , and secondly , not understanding it .

Those of us who were tested on them , ought to know hand signals , younger drivers may not be so familiar . I would hope , though , that every member of this forum knows and understands hand signals , and uses them where appropriate . It was specifically taught in advanced training in the 70's and 80's when I did mine .

It is interesting , too , that a lot of hand signals have been dropped from HC , and you have to go back quite a few editions before you will see the signals given to an officer on points duty ( how many would know the correct signal for 'I intend to turn left' to be given by a car driver to an officer on points duty' ? ) .

How many would know the correct arm signal for a car driver to say ' I intend to turn left ' , or ' I am ready to be overtaken ' to a following road user ??

Regardless of the fact that they may be seldom seen these days , such signals are still 'correct' and 'legal' , so are a valid means of communicating with other road users . Admittedly some signals will be less readily understood than others , but that is a failing of the recipient and not the giver .

I still think hand signals ought to be part of the driving test , because modern cars with their increasing electronic complexity have greater potential for unreliability than simpler , older ones - and lighting faults are one of the most commonplace and visible vehicle defects I notice on a regular basis .

I recently followed a car for some distance , and became aware that both left and right brake lights weren't working and the LED one at the top of the rear windscreen was only working on two of its four segments !

I , as a following driver , could be blissfully unaware if a rear indicator bulb had failed , but earthing faults where other lights in a cluster will pulse at low level when the indicator is meant to be on are quite commonplace .

Perhaps it is too much to hope that a driver , on realising there was a fault with the indicators , would resort to giving hand signals where required ...

Pontoneer
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Re: Roundabout indicating

Postby Pontoneer » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:07 pm

Oh , and lastly , on this subject , those drivers who approach a roundabout trafficating right , when intending to go straight ahead , are a pet hate of mine too . The number of times I have slowed to give way to an oncoming driver who was doing this , only for them to 'change their mind' and go off ahead of me , such that I ended up stopping needlessly , is something I have long lost count of .

It also irks me that a car in front may trafficate right on the approach to a roundabout , at which I intend to go straight ahead ; if there is room for two cars to circulate together ( or even two lanes ) , and where the car in front has adopted a course to the right I would hitherto have taken the view that they were indeed turning right ( as they have told me they are ) , and I would adopt a course to the left , even passing them . Nowadays , however , it is so commonplace for these people to get halfway across the roundabout and give a breakaway signal before going straight ahead , that I always hold back , and I always reward their 'change of mind' with a loud blast of my horn , just to let them know 'I AM HERE' :twisted: Perhaps I'm bad for doing that , but it does annoy me .

I have noticed it to be commonplace amongst driving school cars , as well as younger drivers in general , so I presume it is something that is being wrongly taught to novices .


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