Roundabout indicating

[Adamxck]

I have trouble with this roundabout from every angle. My Grandad lives in the cream house with the terracotta roof.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.45873 ... 312!8i6656

As you can see, it's right between two mini roundabouts. Approaching from the left requires an early signal and a very slow approach as cars following me assume I'm indicating for the next roundabout to take a left up the opposing hill. They get rather annoyed at my crawl, but better that than they hit me from behind.

Coming from down the afore mentioned hill, they assume my indicator hasn't switched off from the first roundabout and expect me to go straight ahead, again, slowing early is my preferred option. Making it clear I'm doing something abnormal.

The worst position is the one shown from the map link. Coming down the hill and needing to go straight over. No signal on approach followed by a left confuses everybody and a right followed by a quick left never gets noticed. I'm almost always closed upon by cars to my left when I'm coming off the roundabout onto the drive. They assume I'm going right so pull away, only to find I'm driving right in front of them.

With the roof down in the summer, (because daylight, not the cold. I have a hat.) I tend to point at my desired destination which tends to work if the other drivers decide to take notice.

Any ideas for easing the situation?

[titian]

It sounds like you are doing the correct things already. The key issue is that you control the traffic around you by driving very slowly, and giving an appropriate signal - whatever that might be, according to the direction of the traffic which is approaching each roundabout. The permutations of what may occur are many and you need eyes in the back of your head!

You may need to slowly block the RAB from the Chapel Hill approach by driving straight over the RAB. You need to choose a moment when the road from the left is blocked by traffic OR when there is no one in sight from that direction, otherwise it's creep into position on the RAB and wait for the traffic from your left to be under your control before moving onto your grandad's driveway.

If you feel that approaching traffic has not correctly interpreted you intentions then overshoot your exit and take another exit later to turn round and approach from that direction. It's almost a case of COMMAND and CONFUSE other drivers such that they slow down whilst you sort out your maneuver - always having your safety (and that of other road users), as the number one consideration.

Not very helpful I'm afraid.

[Strangely Brown]

Perhaps you didn't notice that I was specifically referring to MINI ROUNDABOUTS, the kind that have sprung up in many urban locations where previously there may have been a cross road. The road space is often very limited and more so when a dolop of white paint is on the road at the intersection - which we are advised not to drive over in the HC.

I agree with your quotation from the highway code which I adhere to, in general, when negotiating "normal" roundabouts, those that were planned for when the road was constructed or in situations where the road has been modified to accommodate them, quite a different situation (toys back in the pram time )

Ahem.. </cough>

Rule 188
Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts.

That means the same rules for signalling apply too. i.e. You don't get to just make up your own signals and hope that everyone else knows what you mean. Signalling right on the approach to a roundabout means that you will be going round it, NOT straight on. It is a misleading signal and, I would venture, would mark you down on any driving test.

[titian]

Strangely Brown said:-

That means the same rules for signalling apply too. i.e. You don't get to just make up your own signals and hope that everyone else knows what you mean. Signalling right on the approach to a roundabout means that you will be going round it, NOT straight on. It is a misleading signal

No signals were invented in the answering of this topic!

Re-read the scenario, entering the mini RAB from 6 with the intention of leaving at 12, to accomplish that I am driving around the white paint in the middle of the road, sometimes it's a quite small dot (easy) sometimes it's more expansive white paint (difficult). All this happens in split seconds - on entering the RAB I am aware of "the white van man" chomping at the bit to emerge onto the RAB from 9 - he's looking at me - my wheels are indicating that I am turning left, (to negotiate the RAB, NOT TO ENTER THE JUNCTION WHERE HE IS EMERGING FROM), I need to inform him that I am passing in front of his vehicle and require him to stay exactly where he is until I have passed. What is an appropriate way of giving white van man information that he understands and will make (my) progress around the RAB safer? Well, a few flashes of my right indicator.

I am giving information that confirms that I am not turning left and white van man is less likely to jump out ahead of me - remember it's a mini RAB very little space and time to make these decisions.

If a vehicle is waiting to emerge from 12, once I have passed 9 a breakaway signal is appropriate.

[Strangely Brown]

Re-read the scenario

I don't need to re-read it. I got the first time.

... I need to inform him that I am passing in front of his vehicle and require him to stay exactly where he is until I have passed.

No. You don't. And even if you did then you don't do it by giving a signal that means something else.

What is an appropriate way of giving white van man information that he understands and will make (my) progress around the RAB safer?

You slow down, establish eye contact and make sure that he is aware of your intended direction of travel. If the roundabout is *that* tight then just pinch a bit of paint like everyone else will.

Well, a few flashes of my right indicator.

No. That means that you intend to TURN RIGHT. READ THE HC!

I am giving information that confirms that I am not turning left and white van man is less likely to jump out ahead of me - remember it's a mini RAB very little space and time to make these decisions.

SO SLOW DOWN! Give everyone enough time to get it right. There is no need for misleading signals...

If a vehicle is waiting to emerge from 12, once I have passed 9 a breakaway signal is appropriate.

By which time he has already seen and reacted to your misleading signal that you will be crossing his path and has stopped rather than being able continue uninterrupted.

[chriskay]

I agree with Strangely Brown; any right signal, whether steady or flashing, cannot be correct. In this situation, I break the law and cross the paint.

[titian]

OK lets develop the possibilities:-

1. as Chriskay says,

I break the law and cross the paint

, that taken to extreme i.e. straighlining the RAB across the white paint is the likely route of most drivers, (I'm not suggesting that chriskay would go to such extremes by the way)
2. Just dither and let white van man go on his way ahead of us
3. What if I have an examiner ROSPA/IAM sitting in the passenger seat
4. As3, but I am giving a commentary and explaining my actions
5. I am sitting an IAM "Masters" examination - full commentary, with the expectation of making safe, maximum progress, whilst driving to a standard considered by the IAM to be the highest civilian driving test in the UK

Do you break the law and drive over the paint; what are your chances of passing the examinations 3,4,5 above?

[Strangely Brown]

OK lets develop the possibilities:-
1. as Chriskay says,

I break the law and cross the paint

, that taken to extreme i.e. straighlining the RAB across the white paint is the likely route of most drivers, (I'm not suggesting that chriskay would go to such extremes by the way)

Nobody is suggesting that. Just stop making life unnecessarily hard for yourself.

2. Just dither and let white van man go on his way ahead of us

Nobody mentioned dithering. If you don't have enough time to establish priority without a conflict then you're going too fast.

3. What if I have an examiner ROSPA/IAM sitting in the passenger seat

I would suggest (hope actually) that you would be marked down or failed if you deliberately gave a misleading signal, and it would be exactly that if there were a vehicle approaching from the 12 O'clock exit.

4. As3, but I am giving a commentary and explaining my actions

See 3 above. Explaining it to the examiner doesn't make it any more understandable to someone outside of the car.

5. I am sitting an IAM "Masters" examination - full commentary, with the expectation of making safe, maximum progress, whilst driving to a standard considered by the IAM to be the highest civilian driving test in the UK

You give signals correctly as and when they are required and you negotiate hazards at a speed that gives you enough time to deal with uncertainties.

Do you break the law and drive over the paint; what are your chances of passing the examinations 3,4,5 above?

It depends on the precise nature of the individual roundabout and the circumstances at that time. Trying to be pedantic about going round the paint, inviting conflict with another road user in the process and giving a misleading signal to someone else is, I would suggest, more likely to bugger your chances than driving safely and ensuring that any signals given are correct and understandable by anyone who sees them, even if you do pinch a bit of paint on the roundabout.

To add: any test that requires absolute adherence to the letter of the law over doing what is safest in the circumstances is not a test that I particularly care about.

[TheInsanity1234]

When it's a normal HC style roundabout, I usually indicate as regards the HC. When it's one of those spiral-out roundabouts where you choose a lane for your exit, and remain in that lane and it'll take you straight (around the roundabout) to your exit, then no indication is necessary, but I find you have to watch out for those people who just drift across lanes without indicating. So I generally try to stay away from others, and try not to go alongside anyone on those roundabouts.

Mini-roundabouts, I try to avoid going across them, but I will always scrub some of the paint, simply because the only reason why they exist (in my eyes) is to try and get T-junctions flowing again, and thus, it shouldn't be an offence to go over the white paint.

[martine]

...and thus, it shouldn't be an offence to go over the white paint.

...may be not, but it is*.




*unless you're driving a large vehicle incapable of avoiding the white circle