Braking

Topics relating to Advanced Driving in cars
Triquet
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Re: Braking

Postby Triquet » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:10 am

I love a bit of thread drift :lol:

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EasyShifter
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Re: Braking

Postby EasyShifter » Wed May 25, 2016 2:42 pm

One key feature of good braking is the timing of it. Most people tend to brake too late and too suddenly, but it's also possible (as I learnt in a tutorial) to start too early so that the speed is lost too soon and you have to release the brake, go back on the drive and then brake again - silky-smooth braking is just not possible if doing that. One smooth operation, beginning gently, firming up and then smoothly reducing to feather off before stopping will bring a good result once the timing is mastered - but part of that is also the initial lift-off which should fit in with the rest of the processs so that the speed is lost naturally to begin with and then the brake introduced progressively until the time is right to feather off and avoid a jolt at the halt. If braking not to stop but to reduce speed and take a lower gear, then for maximum smoothness it's important that all the reduction is done on the brakes before taking the appropriate gear for the reduced speed and reintroducing the drive seamlessly.
Michael

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Braking

Postby GTR1400MAN » Wed May 25, 2016 3:14 pm

Squeezing a tube of toothpaste is the analogy I use (which is much nicer than one of the others I've heard in the biker circles ;) ).
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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Horse
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Re: Braking

Postby Horse » Wed May 25, 2016 3:28 pm

The 'handshake' comparison is a good one for motorcycle braking :)
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

Rolyan
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Re: Braking

Postby Rolyan » Thu May 26, 2016 10:22 am

I'm sure I read something, somewhere, with an explanation of 3 phase braking that had phase 1 as like an Angel picking a sleeping child up without waking, phase 2 was as firm as the grip by the Angel carrying the child while flying and phase 3 was the Angel laying the sleeping child down on the bed.

Can't remember where it was, but I liked it at the time! Better than the bikers analogy anyway!

Astraist
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Re: Braking

Postby Astraist » Thu May 26, 2016 11:20 am

All these descriptions with phases to braking (and equally to steering or anything else really) - the terminology makes it sound like a small step input followed by a bigger one. Fine if your inputs must be rushed, not quite so fine as a planned maneuver aiming at efficiency.

Instead, why not talk in terms of ramping up the controls or, more simply, starting to apply them?

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EasyShifter
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Re: Braking

Postby EasyShifter » Thu May 26, 2016 11:37 am

A lot of the unnecessary braking seen on the roads is the result other things being wrong - not looking far enough ahead, accelerating toward a hazard that should have been see earlier, etc. The most common I think it following too closely, so that when the driver in front lifts off, the one following has to use the brakes - in extreme cases the cause of long motorway tailbacks through ''shock-waving'. Brakes are there to reduce speed when necessary, but not to manage it from moment to moment which is about being in the right gear and observing well ahead to allow gradual, smooth adjustments.
Michael

Rolyan
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Re: Braking

Postby Rolyan » Thu May 26, 2016 12:13 pm

Astraist wrote:All these descriptions with phases to braking (and equally to steering or anything else really) - the terminology makes it sound like a small step input followed by a bigger one. Fine if your inputs must be rushed, not quite so fine as a planned maneuver aiming at efficiency.

Instead, why not talk in terms of ramping up the controls or, more simply, starting to apply them?

Bearing in mind the group of people normally involved in discussion about braking i.e. pedants and advanced nerds, do you really think there is much of an issue when talking about 3 phase braking. It makes it clear it's not an on/off switch, and allows those involved to discuss the fine art of gently applying the brakes to settle the vehicle, then the 2nd phase of firm braking (which is also ramped on and off), etc etc etc.

Most of those involved in those sorts of discussions eventually get to the level of mentioning just squeezing the toes in the shoe as a controlled braking input; most of those won't be confused by the term 3 phase braking or think it is one input followed by another bigger one.

The benefit of being a nerd is it lets us relish the minutiae.

Astraist
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Re: Braking

Postby Astraist » Thu May 26, 2016 2:26 pm

I am in the opinion that phrasing does matter. All these models or representations like the examples already given of squeezing tooth paste, having an egg under the pedal, cable instinct or whatever - they do help people with the actual application.

I am in no way suggesting that anyone who uses phrases like "steps" in braking or "hinting" would be susceptible to any particular driving style. However, from the sound of it - it does give (say, to a third-party reader) an idea that is wholly not conductive to the purpose of smooth braking.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Braking

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu May 26, 2016 2:42 pm

Astraist, what analogies do you use?

I use/like the toothpaste one as there are no steps. You start to sqeeze gently, continuing to a firmer/stronger sqeeze and then you have to ease off (otherwise it keeps coming out of the tube). The ease off avoiding those jerky stops, and on bikes, bouncy front suspension.

I sure nobody here uses the 'Number 2s' :o
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube


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