Use of Indicator for Overtaking

[Horse]

Your use of the indicator carried a meaning known only to you.

A headlamp flash is probably the most extreme example of potential for 'transmt-receive' errors.



Anyway, Highway Code:

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/using-t ... aking.html

Seems to be a signal:



Crown Copyright. The content have been sourced from the 2024 edition of The Official Highway Code, and reproduced under the terms of the Open Government Licence.

[Strangely Brown]

The photo is a snapshot of a moment in time. It does not show at what point the signal was applied or whether it was cancelled a moment later.
In the example given by the OP he states that he was already in the offside position and then applied the signal to mean "it's going to happen now".
Hardly HC, Roadcraft or any other recognised text.

A headlamp flash is probably the most extreme example of potential for 'transmt-receive' errors.

Yes, I agree. That's why I said "a long headlamp flash". It can be used in lieu of a horn warning if it is considered that the horn is unlikely to be heard.
Do I use it myself? No. I prefer to be confident that the target is not going to do anything stupid without it.

[Horse]

The photo is a snapshot of a moment in time. It does not show at what point the signal was applied or whether it was cancelled a moment later.

Indicators go on and off. A moment later it would have been off anyway.

[Strangely Brown]

Very good. I see what you did there.

[Edmund Kean]

As the road widened up ahead (about three quarter width) I moved to, distance wise, a following position but out on the offside. I paused in that positioned to be absolutely sure my intended overtaking manoeuvre was going to be safe. As I paused, I activated my indicator and a few seconds later, picked up the drive to pass the van. Not entirely textbook, but it was absolutely safe. I believe I communicated my clear intention to overtake with road position and, with one final confirmation of the when - the indicator being activated. I believe I communicated suitably and with courtesy to the van driver and I used the indicator to convey - it’s going to happen now.

Not entirely textbook? Your use of the indicator carried a meaning known only to you. Unless you intended to move further right or turn right then it, as far as the highway code is concerned, had no meaning. The point of using signals as defined in HC, and only signals defined in HC, is so that everyone knows what they mean. If you start assigning your own arbitrary meaning to something that everyone else recognises as something different then only confusion can ensue. Once you are in the offside position the only signal advocated in Roadcraft prior to committing would be a warning signal, perhaps a horn or long headlamp flash, but an indicator? really?

I disagree. You have made a rocky statement by writing 'a meaning known only to you' - this is highly probable to being grossly inaccurate. As motorists, and as I have alluded to in an earlier post, the use of an indicator to signal intention to overtake is well known. Roadcraft by the Police Foundation is a guide and it doesn't detail every and any scenario or situation. That would be impossible. I also believe it (Police Roadcraft) accepts the 'system' should be flexible. Indeed, and for what it is worth to mention this, my motorcycle copy of Roadcraft from 2014 illustrates a motorcycle with indicator activated whilst on the off side performing an overtake.

Fortunately the world is not full of pedants who refuse to accept whatever if the whatever doesn't comply. Were I in outer Mongolia and I appeared at a settlement from a sandy and rocky track on foot looking pretty bedraggled and pointing at my mouth - odds are some kind soul would recognise I might need water or food. Why I wonder would someone think that?

[Gareth]

How much delay do you mean, low single-figure seconds delay, or longer?

Not sure where this fits in the sequence of this part of the conversation. If you explain, I'll try to answer.

perhaps a more important point is 'why had your attention dropped?' - maybe an indication that instead of going for overtakes you actually needed a rest?

Perhaps chatting with the coach was the distraction, as I'd mentioned. I find what the coaches have to say very interesting, so I try to pay a lot attention when they are speaking, which can take some attention away from the planning aspect of driving.

During the sessions with John Lyon, I feel I'd made the mistake of not always paying enough attention to the quiet words he spoke, because I was concentrating so much on what he'd previously explained, and was trying my best to implement that. His quiet words were mostly hints or modifiers, and carried lots of helpful guidance.

Coaching sessions have followed a standard pattern; meet, briefing, drive, stop for a mid-morning break, drive, stop for lunch, drive, stop for a mid-afternoon break, drive, debrief, depart. During the breaks, more discussion, clarifications, areas to be improved, and so on.

[Gareth]

I do believe from the above overtaking example - I have acted in accord with an element of roadcraft, that being… Giving clear information.

Having slept on it, I'm less certain that's true. Information only has value if it's received. I would view what you described as an attempt to be courteous, delaying your overtake to do so, which compares with my preference to say thank-you after the event.

I hope I've correctly understood your description of the sequence to be ... out, checked it's safe, indicated for a few seconds, then passed ... rather than the more 'interesting' ... out, while checking it's safe indicate for a few seconds, then passing ... which I'm sure you do not mean, as that'd have you courtesy indicating before concluding it's safe to pass.

When opportunities are limited, and based on the coaching I've received from various sources, I'd prefer to not waste even a few seconds when it's on.

[Gareth]

So Edmund Kean, do you have more examples that we might consider, to allow the readers an opportunity to compare differing approaches, to see which they like best, and maybe to interject with a variation neither of us might have considered?

[Horse]

How much delay do you mean, low single-figure seconds delay, or longer?

Not sure where this fits in the sequence of this part of the conversation. If you explain, I'll try to answer.

Irrelevant for the signalling question. Just me being interested (and a temporary thread derail).

I took your original statement to mean that you were slower identifying an opportunity than you could have been.

The intent of the question was along the lines of how much did you get 'delayed'.

However, from your explanation of concentration being diverted in car answers it. Apologies if you'd said that and I missed it.

Perhaps chatting with the coach was the distraction, as I'd mentioned.

I did a driving assessment last year. Nothing taxing, could I get from A to B, reverse into space, then back to A, without crashing the car or seriously confusing anyone else? Or similar.

The assessor showed interest in my background, we chatted away.

It struck me later that it could have been a deliberate action, to take some attention / concentration, so that I couldn't focus on 'putting on a show'.

Oops. Another derail.

[Gareth]

It struck me later that it could have been a deliberate action, to take some attention / concentration, so that I couldn't focus on 'putting on a show'.

It seems to me this would have been done to help you feel at ease. but then it's up to you how long it continues and how involved the conversation becomes.