I've recently been in discussion with another member of a driving club regarding trail braking on the public road. I concluded that the other party did not accept that there are two styles of trail braking. More specifically keeping some braking on in a blind or down hill bend, when driving on the road, is not strictly trail braking as performed on track. I'm talking for car driving as the situation on 2 wheels is slightly different.
I've understood, and supported by research, is that "trail braking" is a technique to move more weight onto the front tyres to improve grip in order to reduce understeer allowing a corner to be taken at a higher speed, with later braking on the approach, than would otherwise be possible. For this reason it usually reserved for track or racing. (The higher speed would be greater than a speed we would normally corner at to be able to stop in the distance seen to be clear.)
For road driving when keeping some braking on during cornering on the road, for a blind or downhill bend, the purpose is entirely different. It is not used to corner at a higher speed or later braking but for safety (blind bend) or to control speed (downhill bend).
What are other peoples thoughts?
Trail Braking
- GTR1400MAN
- Posts: 2210
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:23 pm
Re: Trail Braking
It's always a difficult discussion (two wheels also).
I'd agree with your last two paragraphs describing the two techniques. I would however call the second one "braking in bends" rather than trail braking.
I'd agree with your last two paragraphs describing the two techniques. I would however call the second one "braking in bends" rather than trail braking.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube
Re: Trail Braking
I have heard that difference, but I have also heard a number of people from all backgrounds referring to them both as trail braking...
In essence though I see it as very similar - if you are using it to control speed / safety in a blind or downhill bend, then you are doing so to allow you to take the corner faster - as otherwise the alternative is to slow down... Admittedly, different physics behind the two, but the same way of driving, the same underlying reason... not sure I have an issue with both being referred to as the same, even though I agree there is a technical difference
In essence though I see it as very similar - if you are using it to control speed / safety in a blind or downhill bend, then you are doing so to allow you to take the corner faster - as otherwise the alternative is to slow down... Admittedly, different physics behind the two, but the same way of driving, the same underlying reason... not sure I have an issue with both being referred to as the same, even though I agree there is a technical difference
- jcochrane
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- Location: Surrey-Kent borders and wherever good driving roads are.
Re: Trail Braking
akirk wrote:I have heard that difference, but I have also heard a number of people from all backgrounds referring to them both as trail braking...
In essence though I see it as very similar - if you are using it to control speed / safety in a blind or downhill bend, then you are doing so to allow you to take the corner faster - as otherwise the alternative is to slow down... Admittedly, different physics behind the two, but the same way of driving, the same underlying reason... not sure I have an issue with both being referred to as the same, even though I agree there is a technical difference
Although I agree you could go round at a marginally higher speed as the foot is already on the brake I personally do not do it for that reason. If want to go faster I would use the track/racing technique but would rather use it only off road. The only exception is if my approach speed for the bend has been misjudged
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Re: Trail Braking
akirk wrote:I see it as very similar - if you are using it to control speed / safety in a blind or downhill bend, then you are doing so to allow you to take the corner faster
I see them as different because, when controlling speed for a downhill bend, you are stopping the car picking up speed at a point where it might become very uncomfortable if it did.
However, when controlling speed for a blind bend, then it's also subtly different from the track because in effect you're removing preparation time in case you need to stop abruptly, so getting pretty close to the antithesis of doing something for safety - choosing to reduce the margin of safety on approach.
I think the track case is as explained up-thread, more weight on the front to permit turning in at greater speed, and being prepared to handle the weight transfer mid-bend.
It's a shame we don't have a convenient phrase for each of the two non-track cases.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...
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