Questioning the way I use roundabouts.

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sussex2
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Re: Questioning the way I use roundabouts.

Postby sussex2 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:55 am

Gareth wrote:
sussex2 wrote:before the roundabout the junction was a T...it is only the steering around the roundabout which makes it any different now

It looks to me that the road bends left on approach to the mini-roundabout, removing a 'straight on' option.


I think it's one of those 'you have to be there' moments. The road is alongside a disused railway line, hence gentle curves.

sussex2
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Re: Questioning the way I use roundabouts.

Postby sussex2 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:10 am

Strangely Brown wrote:There is no "straight on" option. Whether travelling north or south, the choices are one of two branches of a "Y".

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.8396936,-0.2857172,18.24z

A learner can identify whether a signal is required simply by looking at the road layout on final approach. One branch goes right, the other left. The only third choice is back whence you came.


The road was changed to suit the roundabout; previously it was a straight run north - south and it is clearly signed as such.
I don't say people shouldn't signal only that the signal (flashing, speed, position, driver) should clearly show the drivers intention. I also feel that it may be better, not just here, to sometimes give no indicator signal in order to avoid confusion to all road users. The roundabout I mentioned is used by many cyclists and pedestrians in particular at weekends.
To be able to interpret all this may well be beyond of the ability of many learners. I do think though that careful thought of any signal should be part of instruction. It may be and I certainly did many years ago when I taught ab initio.

As you said in a previous comment on this thread, and I agree with you:
'The question is really, is what you are doing safe and efficient for you and not misleading to others? If the answer is yes, then stick with it'

Gareth
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Re: Questioning the way I use roundabouts.

Postby Gareth » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:23 pm

Drivers often neglect to indicate when it might be advantageous to do so. For instance, if on approach to this specific mini-roundabout a driver intends taking the first exit, indicating left may allow a driver waiting to emerge at the first exit to do so, blocking a driver waiting to emerge from the second exit, in turn allowing the first driver unfettered passage through the junction.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

sussex2
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Re: Questioning the way I use roundabouts.

Postby sussex2 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:32 pm

Gareth wrote:Drivers often neglect to indicate when it might be advantageous to do so. For instance, if on approach to this specific mini-roundabout a driver intends taking the first exit, indicating left may allow a driver waiting to emerge at the first exit to do so, blocking a driver waiting to emerge from the second exit, in turn allowing the first driver unfettered passage through the junction.


Possibly because they don't regard indicators in the same way as the more trained driver; not part of a system to be used as and when necessary.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Questioning the way I use roundabouts.

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:39 pm

You can only signal once*, so make good use of it.

* on the bikes you have the option to signal once and then reinforce it with a hand signal. (A legal highway code one ;) :lol: )
Mike Roberts

sussex2
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Re: Questioning the way I use roundabouts.

Postby sussex2 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:03 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:You can only signal once*, so make good use of it.

* on the bikes you have the option to signal once and then reinforce it with a hand signal. (A legal highway code one ;) :lol: )


A quick lift of the left leg is much used in France and Spain; generally to thank you for acknowledging their wish to overtake with a quick flash of the right indicator.
It works well and both people feel happy.

fungus
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Re: Questioning the way I use roundabouts.

Postby fungus » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:59 pm

There is often insufficient time or rooom to signal when exiting a mini roundabout, but signals should be considered if they will benefit another road user. Any signal needs carefull consideration, as a bad, or confusing signal is worse than not signaling at all, as others tend to act on a signal. I teach learners to consider whether a signal will benefit another road user, and not, as some teach, to always indicate just in case. This might be ok where visibility is seriously impeded, but where visibility of other road users is good, why, if you can se that no one will benefi?

This junction is one that I use with regularly with learners.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.74833 ... a=!3m1!1e3

I teach learners to signal left if there are approaching road users near enough to benefit from it when going ahead to the NE in Beechbank Avenue. This signal is given relitively late, so as to not lead others to think we are pulling in before the roundabout. When going ahead SW no signal is given. Following drivers are not so much of a problem. Asking learners, when safely parked up, what signals they think will benefit others, and whether those signals will cause confusion, does help them to think about signaling and a given situation requires a signal.

Nigel.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Questioning the way I use roundabouts.

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:16 pm

fungus wrote:I teach learners to signal left if there are approaching road users near enough to benefit from it when going ahead to the NE in Beechbank Avenue. This signal is given relitively late, so as to not lead others to think we are pulling in before the roundabout. When going ahead SW no signal is given. Following drivers are not so much of a problem. Asking learners, when safely parked up, what signals they think will benefit others, and whether those signals will cause confusion, does help them to think about signaling and a given situation requires a signal.

Nigel.

What use is a left signal to anyone if heading North East. That is straight with no ambiguity ... or am I missing something obvious?

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Mike Roberts

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Questioning the way I use roundabouts.

Postby Strangely Brown » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:36 pm

It tells any oncomer that you're not turning right with priority across them and they are therefore free to continue. It just makes life easier for everyone.

ETA:
Is a signal "required"? No.
Would a signal be "useful" to another road user? Yes.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Questioning the way I use roundabouts.

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:48 pm

So you'd proceed on to the RAB based on the oncomer's signal? :o
Mike Roberts


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