Help for a friend

The first test you do - organised by the government.
TheInsanity1234
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Re: Help for a friend

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:29 pm

Horse wrote:Image

I suspect that's some kind of an attempt at humour?

If not, then I guess the point you were attempting to make is that driving "hands free" is dangerous.

Yes, I'm aware of that.

But until you offer me a form of communication which is visual, quick, and easy to understand for both profoundly deaf parties in the vehicle, I think I'll stick to Sign Language. At least it's quick, and about 99% of it can be done with one hand.

WhoseGeneration
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Re: Help for a friend

Postby WhoseGeneration » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:27 pm

TheInsanity1234 wrote:But until you offer me a form of communication which is visual, quick, and easy to understand for both profoundly deaf parties in the vehicle, I think I'll stick to Sign Language. At least it's quick, and about 99% of it can be done with one hand.


That's interesting and a situation that, I suspect, has never been considered by the powers that be.
For instance, could a deaf person become an ADI, aiming to only instruct other deaf people?

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Horse
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Re: Help for a friend

Postby Horse » Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:59 am

TheInsanity1234 wrote: I suspect that's some kind of an attempt at humour?


A fair guess.
My own views. For better or worse :)

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Help for a friend

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:26 pm

It may be humour but it has a (very) serious side. If talking on a mobile phone is distracting, signing has to be at least twice as bad and possibly many more times since a) you have to remove your hands from the wheel b) you have to look at the person you're signing with and c) you have to process thoughts into signs. I'm not sure exactly in which order to put these effects (and there may be others too) but it's not trivial. I understand you have to communicate with others in the vehicle at times, both socially and for communication about the journey, but I'd be looking to keep it to a minimum.

This is not intended to foster inequality in any way, it's just being realistic about the effects of a pretty severe distraction.
Nick

TheInsanity1234
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Re: Help for a friend

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:42 pm

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:It may be humour but it has a (very) serious side. If talking on a mobile phone is distracting, signing has to be at least twice as bad and possibly many more times since a) you have to remove your hands from the wheel b) you have to look at the person you're signing with and c) you have to process thoughts into signs. I'm not sure exactly in which order to put these effects (and there may be others too) but it's not trivial. I understand you have to communicate with others in the vehicle at times, both socially and for communication about the journey, but I'd be looking to keep it to a minimum.

This is not intended to foster inequality in any way, it's just being realistic about the effects of a pretty severe distraction.

I've been a BSL user my whole life, and I've signed for longer than I've been talking (signing since about 1 year old, and talking since about 5. Still haven't shut up in either language :mrgreen:), so the amount of "thought processing" I've got to do in order to use BSL is probably equal to the thought processing that hearing people have to go through in order to speak.

The hand-removing thing is indeed a problem, hence why I try to keep that at a minimum, along with the whole looking at them thing.

I've probably made it out to seem worse than it actually is in the car.

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Horse
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Re: Help for a friend

Postby Horse » Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:26 am

One of my pet hates (it's a never-ending, ever-growing, list :) ) is TV presenters driving while talking to camera*. [I deliberately stated it like that as the presenting is probably uppermost in their minds, with driving as a poor second choice]

However, the point is that they spend a huge amount of time looking 'left' rather than 'forwards'. I wonder whether, during BSL, you also mouth words / lip-read too?


* NB I did discuss this with Paul Clifton, the BBC South transport reporter, he said it was perfectly safe as they always had a 'spotter' in the car looking forwards too . . .
My own views. For better or worse :)

chriskay
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Re: Help for a friend

Postby chriskay » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:05 pm

Horse wrote:
* NB I did discuss this with Paul Clifton, the BBC South transport reporter, he said it was perfectly safe as they always had a 'spotter' in the car looking forwards too . . .


Heaven preserve us. :shock:
Carpe diem

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Horse
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Re: Help for a friend

Postby Horse » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:36 pm

Yes, I wasn't too impressed either . . .
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TheInsanity1234
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Re: Help for a friend

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:55 pm

Horse wrote:One of my pet hates (it's a never-ending, ever-growing, list :) ) is TV presenters driving while talking to camera*. [I deliberately stated it like that as the presenting is probably uppermost in their minds, with driving as a poor second choice]

However, the point is that they spend a huge amount of time looking 'left' rather than 'forwards'.

Indeed, and it mildly irritates me too.

Horse wrote:I wonder whether, during BSL, you also mouth words / lip-read too?

In normal, everyday BSL, some word-mouthing is needed to differentiate between similar signs, but when I'm driving, I'm never in a "conversation" as such, it's mostly just me checking up on passengers, and telling them things. Also, I tend to ask front seat passengers (if they can sign) to sign in the centre of the windscreen, so I don't have to look too far to the left to see what they're signing, and if they're a rear seat passenger, then try to sign in the middle of the rear seat so I can see what they're saying in the RVM.

Horse wrote:* NB I did discuss this with Paul Clifton, the BBC South transport reporter, he said it was perfectly safe as they always had a 'spotter' in the car looking forwards too . . .

:shock: I thought I was bad for signing while driving at times...
Last edited by Mr Cholmondeley-Warner on Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fix quote markers

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Mr Cholmondeley-Warner
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Re: Help for a friend

Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:41 pm

TheInsanity1234 wrote:I've been a BSL user my whole life, and I've signed for longer than I've been talking (signing since about 1 year old, and talking since about 5. Still haven't shut up in either language :mrgreen:), so the amount of "thought processing" I've got to do in order to use BSL is probably equal to the thought processing that hearing people have to go through in order to speak.

That would need some kind of brain wave analysis to prove one way or the other, but think that talking only requires moving the mouth and vocal cords and no other muscles. Signing is going to affect your driving in a number of ways just connected with using an arm:

- taking a hand off the steering wheel - you now have to steer with one hand (yes, we can all do that), you have to transition from two hands to one (may require a momentary change of concentration.
- you move your hand to the left away from the wheel. Next time you do this, check whether your gaze remains directed forwards, or follows your hand as you move it into the free space to your left.
- your vision may follow your hand to the left. Even if it doesn't initially, it's likely to follow your hand to some extent while you are talking with it.
- as your hand, and potentially your vision moves to the left, you now have to change your steering focus slightly to maintain a straight course.

Try the following. While driving in a straight line, look to the left (not necessarily at right angles, perhaps just at the centre of the windscreen below the RVM). Do this for 2 seconds, then look back at the road and see if you're still on the course you thought you were.

Now take your left hand off the wheel and put it in the free space in the centre of the car as well. Again, hold for two seconds, then check your course on the road.

Now do the same but make some signs for 2 seconds, go back and check your course relative to the white lines on the road.

If you continue to drive in an absolutely straight line without thinking about it, you're safe. Any deviation, and we've shown that even your basic control of the car's direction is affected. This doesn't even acknowledge any loss of mental focus that may be accompanying the distraction - loss of peripheral vision to the right, loss of attention on events in front, etc.
Nick


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