Advanced Driving Hub

crr003 wrote:

sussex2 wrote:...What of the driving test and learning to drive, how will this have to change with a high percentage of people learning on auto trans vehicles. It is quite possible that within 15 years the vast majority of cars will be this way.
Does anyone know of any proposed changes or how far this inevitable move has been researched or of any plans ahead?

What needs to change?
Currently people take auto tests. You don't need to specifically request one - you just turn up with two pedals instead of three. The legal test requirements remain the same.

Fair point but there the other technical issues as well - hill hold/auto parking/electronic handbrakes/ auto lights etc etc - something somewhere will have to be adapted, to change.

jont- wrote:You can say the same about other systems - electric handbrakes, hill hold assist, parking sensors (or cameras) etc etc, all becoming ubiquitous. Maybe all learners should be forced to pass the test in a Caterham

I think many examiners would be frit by someone turning up in a Caterham.
Looking back to my days as an ADI there were so many people, who had road sense, who sweated and laboured with a manual gearbox (most instructors and many examiners would only teach/accept through the box changes - sowing the seeds of generations who couldn't really 'use' a gearbox) needlessly so as they had everything else required and would make fair drivers.

sussex2 wrote:

crr003 wrote:

sussex2 wrote:...What of the driving test and learning to drive, how will this have to change with a high percentage of people learning on auto trans vehicles. It is quite possible that within 15 years the vast majority of cars will be this way.
Does anyone know of any proposed changes or how far this inevitable move has been researched or of any plans ahead?

What needs to change?
Currently people take auto tests. You don't need to specifically request one - you just turn up with two pedals instead of three. The legal test requirements remain the same.

Fair point but there the other technical issues as well - hill hold/auto parking/electronic handbrakes/ auto lights etc etc - something somewhere will have to be adapted, to change.

They try and keep up (DVSA). But they are a government organisation!
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-fo ... daptations

So the three you mention would be yes/no/yes for use. Lights would be an interesting one - if you don't use lights/wipers as required you run the risk of getting a fault/fail for safety issues.

Strangely Brown wrote:

jcochrane wrote:The only one thing I miss about driving a DCT is the satisfaction of left foot braking whilst using heel "n" toe, with sustained revs. (Blipping the throttle I hate )

[my emphasis - SB]

Really?

How is that even possible?

After engaging the clutch the left foot is available to move over onto the brake to take over the braking thus allowing the right foot to move over to the throttle ready to blend in the power when required. Not well described in the original post.

Sorry, John. Still confused. I must be missing something here. I thought that DCT/DSG/PDK cars were only two pedal? At least I only remember there being two in the all of the variants that I have driven.

Since "heel 'n' toe" is, by definition, a one foot operation on both the brake pedal and throttle I am struggling to see why would you be using two feet on the brake pedal?

I understand the use of two feet when left-foot braking in a two pedal car, or even in a three pedal car (Hi, Walter), but I do not understand your description. Have I really missed something blindingly obvious? (it wouldn't be first time).

DCT and LFB? or 3 pedals and H&T? or something else?

Strangely Brown wrote:Sorry, John. Still confused. I must be missing something here. I thought that DCT/DSG/PDK cars were only two pedal? At least I only remember there being two in the all of the variants that I have driven.

Since "heel 'n' toe" is, by definition, a one foot operation on both the brake pedal and throttle I am struggling to see why would you be using two feet on the brake pedal?

I understand the use of two feet when left-foot braking in a two pedal car, or even in a three pedal car (Hi, Walter), but I do not understand your description. Have I really missed something blindingly obvious? (it wouldn't be first time).

DCT and LFB? or 3 pedals and H&T? or something else?

Heel “n” toe in a manual then moving to left foot braking…… I place my right foot to cover both throttle and brake. This means only covering half of the brake pedal.(This makes it possible to place the left foot on the brake, two feet on one pedal, after the left foot has completed the clutch operation.) The right foot can then be moved to the throttle as the left is now doing the braking. The right foot can then cover the throttle ready to apply the throttle as/when required.
So initially it’s heel ‘n’toe then transitioning seamlessly into left foot braking. So you end up with the same situation as left foot braking in an automatic with the benefits of that technique.

Hope that makes more sense. It is only possible to achieve if the right foot only covers half the brake pedal during the heel ‘n’ toe phase as room is needed to place the left foot alongside the right on the brake pedal as you hand off the braking from the right foot to the left foot. Easier to do than trying to explain.

It all sound rather like playing a big organ with pedals. I seem to remember that American cars of a certain vintage used to have a gigantic brake pedal the size of a small coffee table ... plenty of room for both feet.

jcochrane wrote:

Strangely Brown wrote:Sorry, John. Still confused. I must be missing something here. I thought that DCT/DSG/PDK cars were only two pedal? At least I only remember there being two in the all of the variants that I have driven.

Since "heel 'n' toe" is, by definition, a one foot operation on both the brake pedal and throttle I am struggling to see why would you be using two feet on the brake pedal?

I understand the use of two feet when left-foot braking in a two pedal car, or even in a three pedal car (Hi, Walter), but I do not understand your description. Have I really missed something blindingly obvious? (it wouldn't be first time).

DCT and LFB? or 3 pedals and H&T? or something else?

Heel “n” toe in a manual then moving to left foot braking…… I place my right foot to cover both throttle and brake. This means only covering half of the brake pedal.(This makes it possible to place the left foot on the brake, two feet on one pedal, after the left foot has completed the clutch operation.) The right foot can then be moved to the throttle as the left is now doing the braking. The right foot can then cover the throttle ready to apply the throttle as/when required.
So initially it’s heel ‘n’toe then transitioning seamlessly into left foot braking. So you end up with the same situation as left foot braking in an automatic with the benefits of that technique.

Hope that makes more sense. It is only possible to achieve if the right foot only covers half the brake pedal during the heel ‘n’ toe phase as room is needed to place the left foot alongside the right on the brake pedal as you hand off the braking from the right foot to the left foot. Easier to do than trying to explain.

Yes, I understand what you are doing in a 3 pedal car with a manual gearbox. My confusion, which I appear to be not making clear, is how you are doing that in a DCT car with only 2 pedals? Do you have a DCT car with 3 pedals?

Triquet wrote:It all sound rather like playing a big organ with pedals. I seem to remember that American cars of a certain vintage used to have a gigantic brake pedal the size of a small coffee table ... plenty of room for both feet.

That was probably because they weighed about the same as St. Pauls and had only puny little rotors, if they had disc brakes at all. It needed two feet and a good heft with leverage on the steering wheel to stop the things.

Strangely Brown wrote:

Triquet wrote:It all sound rather like playing a big organ with pedals. I seem to remember that American cars of a certain vintage used to have a gigantic brake pedal the size of a small coffee table ... plenty of room for both feet.

That was probably because they weighed about the same as St. Pauls and had only puny little rotors, if they had disc brakes at all. It needed two feet and a good heft with leverage on the steering wheel to stop the things.

I fear you may be right.