Proposal for new driving test regulations post initial test...

Anything that doesn't fit elsewhere - doesn't have to be AD related.

Are you in favour of the new proposed driving regulations?

Agree to all
0
No votes
Agree to some (please specify alternative)
1
14%
Disagree
6
86%
 
Total votes: 7

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Horse
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Re: Proposal for new driving test regulations post initial test...

Postby Horse » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:20 pm

Tracey_YCoung wrote: Yet another serious accident happened this morning


Was there? That's sad. What was the cause? Would a new training and testing regime have prevented it?

Tracey_YCoung wrote: something needs to be done!!


You may well be right. But what? Whatever is proposed and put in place actually needs to be supported by ongoing monitoring to determine whether it's beneficial. Some things that seem like great ideas aren't supported by evidence that they improve safety (young driver training is one example).

Tracey_YCoung wrote: you should be ashamed of yourself not wanting to make the roads safer and instead of just rolling over and accepting things for how they are.


Well, after almost 30 years of voluntary working on motorcycle rider training and subsequently 10 years working in road safety research, I've done a fair bit.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

hir
Posts: 475
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Re: Proposal for new driving test regulations post initial test...

Postby hir » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:41 pm

Tracey_YCoung wrote:
Strangely Brown wrote:^^^ What he said.

Any law or regulation that cannot be policed or enforced is pointless.


Yet another serious accident happened this morning....wake up and smell the bacon, something needs to be done!! We are meant to be advocates of the road...so why don't we make a stand to make things change for the better. Its too much for the police to deal with, but think about all the resources used when serious accidents happen...better education and continuous monitoring has the potential to reduce accidents. Open you eyes...you all call yourself advance drivers....you should be ashamed of yourself not wanting to make the roads safer and instead of just rolling over and accepting things for how they are.


Nobody on this forum has given the slightest indication that they do not want the roads to be safer. Unfortunately, criticism of your proposals has arisen because, although well meaning, the proposals are impracticable.

Regrettably, your response is ultimately self-defeating. It comes across as a purely emotional reaction to the criticism directed at your proposal, and it won't cut any ice with the frequenters of this forum. It would be more appreciated if you could give us your appraisal as to how your proposals would work in practice; how they would be funded; how they would be policed; what is the likelihood of their acceptance by the general public; the likelihood of any political party adopting them as political policy; how society and the economy would deal with the significant numbers of individuals deprived of their licences; how would the police deal with the policing and monitoring of the significant numbers of drivers who are banned from driving under the proposed regime; how would society deal with the significant increase in uninsured, unlicensed drivers who would continue to drive notwithstanding having been banned as a result of the implementation of your proposals; how would society react to the imposition of regulations and licensing of cyclists at a time when the general public are being urged to cycle rather than drive. How would your cyclist licensing proposal work in cities with bike-share schemes, it is unlikely that anyone would want to carry around a cycle licence plate whenever they wished to borrow a bike?

If you would address these issues we would be interested to consider them.
Last edited by hir on Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Horse
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Re: Proposal for new driving test regulations post initial test...

Postby Horse » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:12 pm

Funding is an issue for any innovation. Submit your proposals here, you may get financial support:

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/innovation-hub/
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Proposal for new driving test regulations post initial test...

Postby GTR1400MAN » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:09 pm

Tracey_YCoung wrote:... you all call yourself advance drivers....you should be ashamed of yourself not wanting to make the roads safer and instead of just rolling over and accepting things for how they are.

Wow, that's strong at only 4 posts/comments of site membership! :o

Many of us here spend many many hours helping INDIVIDUALS to improve their riding/driving, and see that there is infrastructure in the form of groups/clubs to assist people.

We would all love to see some form of better policing, training, testing etc. but having done this for many years are realists. Your proposals would not float from the cost of implementation, the lack of police to enforce so many new regulations when even existing ones are not being enforced, all the way through to the likelihood (no chance!) of any government implementing any changes that would have a negative impact on their receiving of a vote.
Mike Roberts - Now riding a Triumph Explorer XRT. My username comes from my 50K miles on a Kawasaki 1400GTR, after many years on Hondas of various shapes and styles. - https://tinyurl.com/mikerobertsonyoutube

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Horse
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Re: Proposal for new driving test regulations post initial test...

Postby Horse » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:54 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:
Tracey_YCoung wrote:...you should be ashamed of yourself not wanting to make the roads safer

Wow, that's strong at only 4 posts/comments of site membership! :o

Many of us here spend many many hours helping INDIVIDUALS


Nah, go for millions ;)

https://www.highwaysmagazine.co.uk/TRL- ... award/2508

The research culminated in the release of Interim Advice Note 150/15 in September 2015 by Highways England, allowing omission of all central reservation signing at short-term road works on two, three or four lane dual carriageway roads. As a result, Highways England has been able to reduce the number of carriageway crossings undertaken each year from 3.7 million to effectively zero.
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.

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akirk
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Location: Cotswolds

Re: Proposal for new driving test regulations post initial test...

Postby akirk » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:10 pm

Tracey_YCoung wrote:Yet another serious accident happened this morning....wake up and smell the bacon, something needs to be done!! We are meant to be advocates of the road...so why don't we make a stand to make things change for the better. Its too much for the police to deal with, but think about all the resources used when serious accidents happen...better education and continuous monitoring has the potential to reduce accidents. Open you eyes...you all call yourself advance drivers....you should be ashamed of yourself not wanting to make the roads safer and instead of just rolling over and accepting things for how they are.


Tracey, I do appreciate your enthusiasm, and I am sure that lots of us on here have become frustrated by driving on the roads etc. and would love to see something more serious... however, I am not sure that berating the membership of the only Advanced Driving forum will do any more than lose you friends! I think that all on here get where you are coming from, but equally most on here are quite experienced in the world of advanced driving - some on here are very experienced indeed - from those in / ex-police to those who have been heavily embedded in IAM / RoSPA for years, to others driving at a seriously high level... With that experience does tend to come an understanding of what can and can't work - and ultimately the government will balance cost / hassle / likelihood of it succeeding with the benefit it may bring

In reality, there is little extra that can be done - much of what Advanced Driving is about is increasing personal satisfaction in the level at which we drive - in reality it makes virtually no difference to safety stats...

I often show this diagram as an illustration - slightly out of date now, but it shows how few deaths / etc. there are annually on the roads (1,970 out of 493,242) - to be honest we are tailing off in the benefits we can bring and that now means that any extra benefit is hugely costly in how you get there...
https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/10/28/Factfile_deaths_large.png

finally - just so that you are aware - we tend to run a very relaxed forum here, but a part of that is courtesy to others, so perhaps adjusting the language so that it doesn't come across as quite so confrontational would be good...

thanks

Alasdair
(Site Owner)

Triquet
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Re: Proposal for new driving test regulations post initial test...

Postby Triquet » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:04 pm

It's worthwhile doing a bit of research on the subject. By some strange coincidence I learned to drive (4 wheels) in 1966 when the number of deaths on the road was at a peak. Since then the trend has been steadily downwards due to a whole bunch of reasons including the drink-driving laws, the introduction of seat-belts, much better car design in terms of road holding, braking, suspension and crash protection etc etc, despite a huge increase in the number of cars and commercial vehicles on the road. The modern driving test although far from perfect is a vast improvement from the 1966 version.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_ ... at_Britain

We shouldn't be complacent, but the UK has one of the best records in the world, and improvements are now in the area of diminishing returns. We could add layers of legislation and complexity and make very little difference. Odd little things might make a difference. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the introduction of LED lights on cycles will show up in the statistics in a positive way, and the bad state of our roads a negative way.

sussex2
Posts: 577
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:43 am

Re: Proposal for new driving test regulations post initial test...

Postby sussex2 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:36 am

Triquet wrote:It's worthwhile doing a bit of research on the subject. By some strange coincidence I learned to drive (4 wheels) in 1966 when the number of deaths on the road was at a peak. Since then the trend has been steadily downwards due to a whole bunch of reasons including the drink-driving laws, the introduction of seat-belts, much better car design in terms of road holding, braking, suspension and crash protection etc etc, despite a huge increase in the number of cars and commercial vehicles on the road. The modern driving test although far from perfect is a vast improvement from the 1966 version.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_ ... at_Britain

We shouldn't be complacent, but the UK has one of the best records in the world, and improvements are now in the area of diminishing returns. We could add layers of legislation and complexity and make very little difference. Odd little things might make a difference. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the introduction of LED lights on cycles will show up in the statistics in a positive way, and the bad state of our roads a negative way.


Well said and I also notice improvements in other countries which are working equally as hard. It is certain that you cannot travel by any means without some risk and I applaud all those agencies and individual that continually try to reduce these risks.

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_saf ... urope-0_en

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AndyP
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Location: Bath/Bristol

Re: Proposal for new driving test regulations post initial test...

Postby AndyP » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:22 pm

Hi Tracey.
I do appreciate what you are saying and I know from the many tests I have conducted on you for Fellows [iAM RoadSmart] Rospa Golds and one of the best HGV Tests I have done in years too. [Only member in the Country with a Fellows on an HGV] how passionate about driving and driving standards you are.

That is why I feel supportive.

The feedback you are getting on this forum should help in addressing some of the perhaps weaker/implausible/unworkable areas of your suggestions, what you could take forward and what are terrible VOTE losers. Just run with it. I read some good alternative answers.
WE FEEL YOUR PAIN

I only have one catch all answer. Bring back the Traffic men, and the three E's
Teaching from or by:-
Example
Education
Enforcement

[That will set many off on the forum too!!!]

Then if you wish submit them to various road safety organisations for further consideration. Then even to the various Roads Ministers. [Notice the deliberate not naming them or their Political titles because clearly I do not know anymore.]

PS
FYI I used to have two colleague long distance HGV Drivers based locally. They would regularly ring me up during the day or at the end of the working day to 'BRIEF' me on all the many incidents they had witnessed.
What I am saying is that is the rather unique position you are in now in seeing more than many.

In my 1,000,000 mile career sitting on the left or the right of a Traffic patrol or Driving school car I had the same insight.
However there were many times I had to grin, bear it, use it as a what not to do exercise, or just move on rather than stop during an exercise/drive/operation.

There we are my 'six pennorth!' for what it is worth.

Best wishes
Cheers Andy
It is not WHAT you drive, BUT:-- the WAY that you drive it.
It is not HOW fast you drive, BUT:-- HOW you drive fast.

Cheers Andy

hir
Posts: 475
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:16 pm

Re: Proposal for new driving test regulations post initial test...

Postby hir » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:29 pm

AndyP wrote:Hi Tracey.
I do appreciate what you are saying and I know from the many tests I have conducted on you for Fellows [iAM RoadSmart] Rospa Golds and one of the best HGV Tests I have done in years too. [Only member in the Country with a Fellows on an HGV] how passionate about driving and driving standards you are.

That is why I feel supportive.

The feedback you are getting on this forum should help in addressing some of the perhaps weaker/implausible/unworkable areas of your suggestions, what you could take forward and what are terrible VOTE losers. Just run with it. I read some good alternative answers...

etc.

... There we are my 'six pennorth!' for what it is worth.

Best wishes
Cheers Andy

Very nicely put. :)


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