EV sales down

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sussex2
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Re: EV sales down

Postby sussex2 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:47 am

RiK wrote:For me, they're going to need to be a *lot* cheaper before I could even consider dipping a toe in the water.

For one thing, I need a decent size car with a lot of boot space for work and so the current entry-level models wouldn't cut it, and that's before we consider the range. Whilst *most* of my regular driving is local, every few weeks I need to do a 200-300 mile round trip somewhere and if I'm visiting a client or something I can't be wasting time stopping off every 100 miles to sit around waiting for the car to charge up a bit.


Exactly! and imagine the recent standstills of up to 6 hours on the M25 in freezing cold weather!

Triquet
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Re: EV sales down

Postby Triquet » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:11 pm

Won't be long before we see AA vans with a giant battery and jump leads.

DJP31
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Re: EV sales down

Postby DJP31 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:37 pm

sussex2 wrote:
RiK wrote:For me, they're going to need to be a *lot* cheaper before I could even consider dipping a toe in the water.

For one thing, I need a decent size car with a lot of boot space for work and so the current entry-level models wouldn't cut it, and that's before we consider the range. Whilst *most* of my regular driving is local, every few weeks I need to do a 200-300 mile round trip somewhere and if I'm visiting a client or something I can't be wasting time stopping off every 100 miles to sit around waiting for the car to charge up a bit.


Exactly! and imagine the recent standstills of up to 6 hours on the M25 in freezing cold weather!


Actually being in an EV would have been very comfortable, relatively speaking. The battery drain from using the heater is very small, and can be reduced even more if just the heated seat is used. Meanwhile the ICE drivers are suffocating from the carbon monoxide poisoning :lol:

DJP31
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Re: EV sales down

Postby DJP31 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:46 pm

Triquet wrote:Won't be long before we see AA vans with a giant battery and jump leads.


That's where EV's don't have a get out of jail card, unlike the jerry can that breathes life back into an ICE car. A flat bed truck to the nearest charge point, and then a wait of "some time" - this being dependent on the battery size and charge rate. Without doubt "range anxiety" is a reality, at least for a short while until you realise 90% of the time you are driving well within the range of the car, and for the other 10% a modicum of planning may be needed.

Much of the range anxiety mindset is due to our experiences with laptops and phones, where 20% can turn into 1% at the blink of an eye. That just doesn't happen as EV's have battery management systems to prevent this.

Triquet
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Re: EV sales down

Postby Triquet » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:03 pm

What is the legal position if your EV grinds to an ignominious halt on the hard shoulder? I suppose its like running out of petrol, slap on the wrist time.

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jont-
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Re: EV sales down

Postby jont- » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:04 pm

DJP31 wrote:Much of the range anxiety mindset is due to our experiences with laptops and phones, where 20% can turn into 1% at the blink of an eye. That just doesn't happen as EV's have battery management systems to prevent this.

Why do you think the coders for EVs are any better at guessing that those writing smart phone software...?

martine
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Re: EV sales down

Postby martine » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:10 pm

DJP31 wrote:
martine wrote:
DJP31 wrote:The SMMT are not keen on EV’s for fairly obvious reasons...

Perhaps I'm thick...


I doubt that :)

EV’s are generally not seen as being good news to the traditional ICE manufacturers who are heavily invested in their current business models. EV’s with lower running costs and far fewer moving parts that need replacing or repair don’t sit well with the dealer networks.

As a trade body it’s to be expected.

Not sure that's true - all major manufacturers are researching and planning production of EVs in the next 5 years.
Martin - Bristol Advanced Motorists: IMI National Observer, Group Secretary, Masters (dist), DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

DJP31
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Re: EV sales down

Postby DJP31 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:21 pm

jont- wrote:
DJP31 wrote:Much of the range anxiety mindset is due to our experiences with laptops and phones, where 20% can turn into 1% at the blink of an eye. That just doesn't happen as EV's have battery management systems to prevent this.

Why do you think the coders for EVs are any better at guessing that those writing smart phone software...?


I love my EV but am very far from being anything remotely resembling an expert in battery chemistry. Laptop and smart phones are routinely charged to 100% and run down to sub 20%. Batteries don't like these extremes, (drivers of Toyota/Lexus hybrids will know as the battery is never allowed to drop below 20% before the ICE cuts in, nor charge above 80%). This constant cycling reduces the battery life and damages the cells.

Neither to these device types have sophisticated battery cooling and heating systems, which cars do. The car will also reduce the power output if the battery gets too hot (hence why a Tesla is rubbish round a track), and if the battery is too cold will limit the kinetic energy regeneration from braking.

DJP31
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Re: EV sales down

Postby DJP31 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:30 pm

martine wrote:
DJP31 wrote:
martine wrote:
DJP31 wrote:The SMMT are not keen on EV’s for fairly obvious reasons...

Perhaps I'm thick...


I doubt that :)

EV’s are generally not seen as being good news to the traditional ICE manufacturers who are heavily invested in their current business models. EV’s with lower running costs and far fewer moving parts that need replacing or repair don’t sit well with the dealer networks.

As a trade body it’s to be expected.

Not sure that's true - all major manufacturers are researching and planning production of EVs in the next 5 years.


They are, but they have been very slow to join the party, and are perhaps being dragged by changes in legislation rather than a desire to move away from fossil fuels. They have invested billions in development of engines and will want to continue to see a return on that investment. That said, the EV market will continue to expand and offer greater choice than now. BUT the public charging network needs to improve dramatically for drivers to look to EV's as the main family car.

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Horse
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Re: EV sales down

Postby Horse » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:36 pm

martine wrote:
DJP31 wrote:I doubt that :)

EV’s are generally not seen as being good news to the traditional ICE manufacturers who are heavily invested in their current business models. EV’s with lower running costs and far fewer moving parts that need replacing or repair don’t sit well with the dealer networks.

As a trade body it’s to be expected.

Not sure that's true - all major manufacturers are researching and planning production of EVs in the next 5 years.


If they're losing out on parts sales they'll have to start entering races to sell rally jackets ;)
Your 'standard' is how you drive alone, not how you drive during a test.


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