Why autonomous cars won't be able to drive properly...

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dvenman
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Why autonomous cars won't be able to drive properly...

Postby dvenman » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:38 am

I saw this comment on an email list I subscribe to (for those interested, http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/ )

The Las Vegas bus incident demonstrates a basic problem of autonomous cars, which no one seems to have addressed yet.

As every student driver learns within the first few lessons, operating a vehicle is the easier part; but driving is essentially teamwork. A driver must not just be aware of what other drivers do, but more important, has to use social skills to predict what they wish to do and what are going to do.

It's no accident that in many languages, terms used to describe driving originate from the realm of social behavior (e.g. "conduct").

So it seems that the main problem of driving robots is that they have learned to control vehicles, but have not yet learned how to drive.

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Horse
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Re: Why autonomous cars won't be able to drive properly...

Postby Horse » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:52 am

Could you give a few 'real' examples of these situations?
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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Why autonomous cars won't be able to drive properly...

Postby GTR1400MAN » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:52 am

How about the non-autonomous car is trying to merge into a lane full of autonomous cars. At what point does one of them ease off to let you blend in? There are loads of situations like this that make driving/riding a dance where all the participants have to cooperate.

Or perhaps they are programmed to be over cautious and it will be easy to push in anywhere. ;)
Mike Roberts

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Horse
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Re: Why autonomous cars won't be able to drive properly...

Postby Horse » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:45 am

They'll follow rules. Tell us how merging 'rules' currently vary, or are implemented, from, say, UK to India via Dubai :)

I've seen video of people deliberately walking out in front of an autonomous vehicle. It stopped each time.
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martine
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Re: Why autonomous cars won't be able to drive properly...

Postby martine » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:10 pm

GTR1400MAN wrote:How about the non-autonomous car is trying to merge into a lane full of autonomous cars. At what point does one of them ease off to let you blend in?

But it's not a show-stopper...it could be programmed that when at slow speed where 2 lanes merge, to ease off and zip-merge. Autonomous cars are getting way beyond the simple control of the vehicle...they are becoming 'aware' of the environment in which they drive and actively scan for pedestrians about to step out etc.
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer, Group Secretary, Masters (dist), DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

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Horse
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Re: Why autonomous cars won't be able to drive properly...

Postby Horse » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:20 pm

martine wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote:How about the non-autonomous car is trying to merge into a lane full of autonomous cars. At what point does one of them ease off to let you blend in?

But it's not a show-stopper...it could be programmed that when at slow speed where 2 lanes merge, to ease off and zip-merge. Autonomous cars are getting way beyond the simple control of the vehicle...they are becoming 'aware' of the environment in which they drive and actively scan for pedestrians about to step out etc.


Indeed. They will be able (with full connectivity) to match speed and merge seamlessly into a platoon, potentially without substantial speed reduction.

HGV platooning trials are being planned for the UK. These will be a step on from previous trials elsewhere in that the intention is to have vehicles actually carrying real loads to be delivered.
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fungus
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Re: Why autonomous cars won't be able to drive properly...

Postby fungus » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:35 pm

Or how about dealing with emergency vehicles. How will they respond to an oncoming ambulance passing parked cars where the road is a bit narrow?

I say this because my wifes car was parked in Salisbury this afternoon when it was side swiped by an ambulance on a blue light when the driver had to pull in sharply as they were passing parked cars, probably due to an oncoming vehicle. Humans get these situations wrong often enough. An autonomous vehicle is not going to be able to plan where to pull in. Its only response would be to stop, wich could cause problems when it does as many humans do and stop just where they block the road. :roll:

Nigel.

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Horse
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Re: Why autonomous cars won't be able to drive properly...

Postby Horse » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:18 pm

Why would an autonomous vehicle (in the future anyway, I'm not sure about 'now') not beable to plan to pull in?

Currently, AVs (as I understand it ) run on routes which have already been lidar mapped, so can x-ref their location.

Howver, again AIUI, the intent is to 'crowd source' maps from other vehicles, so will almost immediately 'know' where the pull in is located - probably even when a human driver wouldn't even be able to see it - along its entire planned route or any alternate route. The AV is also likely to be using lidar and cameras to identify what is happening in its immediate vicinity and should know which gaps it can fit through.
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Strangely Brown
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Re: Why autonomous cars won't be able to drive properly...

Postby Strangely Brown » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:19 pm

I read an article the other day detailing how the LiDAR on a particular new model of AV (I cannot remember which) would be able to "see"... wait for it... 200m ahead of the car and that this breakthrough was almost three times the standard "vision" of other AVs. Now, I know that many (most?) meatbag drivers out there don't look any further ahead than the car in front or, in the absence of one, the end of the bonnet, but come on, if all they can do is drive re-actively within a radius of less than 80m then how the hell are they ever going to be able to cope.

Triquet
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Re: Why autonomous cars won't be able to drive properly...

Postby Triquet » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:28 pm

What will happen when an AV is trying to merge onto a motorway with Lane 1 full of bloody minded humans? Will it do the stop-at-the-end-of-the-slip-road thing? Will it ever be able to get onto the motorway?


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