Admiral - Speed Awareness Course....

Anything that doesn't fit elsewhere - doesn't have to be AD related.
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Strangely Brown
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Re: Admiral - Speed Awareness Course....

Postby Strangely Brown » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:15 pm

Horse wrote:Doesn't actually tell us what skills are improved or whether their increase increase will persevere for the same duration as the confidence.


Ooh, ooh, me, Sir, I know. <waves hand>

Whether or not any improvement will stick, and for how long, depends entirely why the trainee is taking the course in the first place. i.e. If they are there because they really want to improve, then it will stick, and they may even go on further. If they are there for some other reason e.g. to get cheap insurance innit or because my boss said I had to do it then they will revert to type pretty quickly.

martine
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Re: Admiral - Speed Awareness Course....

Postby martine » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:02 pm

crr003 wrote:I'm sure it works with some. Those that haven't looked at a Highway Code for 30 years...

So that will be 99% of the audience who have been driving for 30 years or more then...

On a more serious note, in my experience the feedback from the SAC and NDAC courses is consistently good. Most people arrive feeling pretty fed up and thinking it's going to be a waste of time but most (not all) seem to leave thinking it's been worthwhile. I say this as someone who regularly does the practical (driving bit) of the NDAC for Avon and Somerset and Wiltshire police. I think I can tell if someone is being genuine and I've heard (and read) some lovely comments from attendees who have no reason to 'suck-up' to trainers. Comments like: "this should be compulsory for all drivers" or "thank you, I've really leant a lot" are common.

I can also tell you about a few who are disruptive, think/know they are driving gods :gear: and leave having gained little except the disrespect of the trainers and fellow attendees around them. :roll:

One guy was adamant that all 20 limits are unenforceable...apparently he had a mate who was a police officer who told him that. :roll: Trainers and attendees gave up and simply smiled every time he banged on about it (and he wasn't even attending an SAC).

I had a guy who I noticed wasn't using his handbrake - even when queuing on hills and preferred to ride the clutch. His reasoning was he was less likely to get whiplash if rear-ended...and wouldn't listen to my quiet reasoning or description of basic physics.
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer and Group Secretary, DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

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Horse
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Re: Admiral - Speed Awareness Course....

Postby Horse » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:25 am

We had a bike trainee who wouldn't use the rear brake when stopped because it would "Wear out the brake". His instructor was a mechanic so patiently explained that without friction no wear would occur.

"Well, it will wear out the light bulb".
My own views. For better or worse :)

huytonman
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Re: Admiral - Speed Awareness Course....

Postby huytonman » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:44 pm

akirk wrote:There is someone I was talking to in the AD world earlier this year who runs the courses - someone like that runs a very constructive course - for any driver (including all of us) there is always something to learn / be reminded about...

however, from what I have heard there are those running these courses who are patronising / know-it all / and often get things wrong

so I suspect it depends on who is running it...

Alasdair


Thats my expectation too; I attended a course four years ago and it was thought provoking enough for me to look into taking ROSPA training; Im now a tutor for ROSPA which would never have happened if I hadnt attended the course. Sadly there were attendees on the course (in this case yourngish men) who though it was simply a way to avoid points and a fine and treated it with disdain, whether people like this would be discouraged from repeating their speeding if they were given points I'm not that sure, having known serial offenders who only wake up when they get to nine of more points. Admirals research leaves more questions than answers in my mind (btw they didnt ask me if I had taken a course when insuring with them last year).
Keith

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akirk
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Re: Admiral - Speed Awareness Course....

Postby akirk » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:23 pm

huytonman wrote:Thats my expectation too; I attended a course four years ago and it was thought provoking enough for me to look into taking ROSPA training; Im now a tutor for ROSPA which would never have happened if I hadnt attended the course. Sadly there were attendees on the course (in this case yourngish men) who though it was simply a way to avoid points and a fine and treated it with disdain, whether people like this would be discouraged from repeating their speeding if they were given points I'm not that sure, having known serial offenders who only wake up when they get to nine of more points. Admirals research leaves more questions than answers in my mind (btw they didnt ask me if I had taken a course when insuring with them last year).
Keith


That is fascinating - can't imagine that there are many people taking that journey, but great that for at least 1 person it has really worked... I think the idea of the courses is superb, if we believe in the AD world in education, and not just blindly penalising people then I think we should support such courses...

Alasdair

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jont-
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Re: Admiral - Speed Awareness Course....

Postby jont- » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:36 pm

akirk wrote:That is fascinating - can't imagine that there are many people taking that journey, but great that for at least 1 person it has really worked... I think the idea of the courses is superb, if we believe in the AD world in education, and not just blindly penalising people then I think we should support such courses...

Indeed. Just not the mechanism of [unreasonably low and inconsistently set] speed limits to get people on them :soap:

sussex2
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Re: Admiral - Speed Awareness Course....

Postby sussex2 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:22 am

I wonder how much the manner in which people have been taught to drive comes into this? Especially for those 'caught' at lower speeds.
A few years ago (and it may be still relevant) there seemed to be a fashion to encourage the use of higher numbered gears, with consequent less accelerator control at low speeds.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Admiral - Speed Awareness Course....

Postby GTR1400MAN » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:07 am

sussex2 wrote:A few years ago (and it may be still relevant) there seemed to be a fashion to encourage the use of higher numbered gears, with consequent less accelerator control at low speeds.

A few years ago? I thought it was still in fashion. The 'eco driving' nags in cars encourage it, as well as new drivers taught this way. Rushing up the box is a common problem with car drivers (and surprisingly motorcycle riders). People are afraid of a little noise from the engine.
Mike Roberts

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akirk
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Re: Admiral - Speed Awareness Course....

Postby akirk » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:47 am

sussex2 wrote:I wonder how much the manner in which people have been taught to drive comes into this? Especially for those 'caught' at lower speeds.
A few years ago (and it may be still relevant) there seemed to be a fashion to encourage the use of higher numbered gears, with consequent less accelerator control at low speeds.


There was a very unhelpful campaign by the IAM if I remember - on mainstream news / radio / etc. - to use third in town...
in reality, in many modern cars that might be appropriate / might not be - it certainly over-simplifies - my car at the time was an XJS with a 4 speed auto box which changed from 2nd to 3rd at about 80-90mph! So I wasn't totally convinced about needing to be in 3rd while driving around towns :racing:

Alasdair

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exportmanuk
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Re: Admiral - Speed Awareness Course....

Postby exportmanuk » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:04 pm

Was pootling around the lanes for my LOA test riding the a R1200RT 60 in 2nd is around 7k bike is very happy at that, very responsive gear.
A couple of weeks before I had been out with an associate riding a blackbird who was trying to keep to 30 in 3rd. The number of associates we see who are up and down the box because they think they should be in the highest gear possible as soon as possible in unbelievable. Once you have go over that you then have to remind them that they can use the higher gears if they are cruising along a motorway
Andrew Melton
Manchester 500


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