Uh-Oh . . . Trouble in the stable :)

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Uh-Oh . . . Trouble in the stable :)

Postby GTR1400MAN » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:06 pm

Pontoneer wrote:Hard to describe , but coming onto the brakes much like any other car - just apply smoothly and firm up progressively .

When almost stopped I lift off the brakes slightly to avoid the last moment snatch , then reapply just coming to the stop .

Yes, that's what I do in the Clio, though it never fully disengages drive until stationary. Still not quite as smooth as I can achieve in a manual car, but near enough.

Pontoneer wrote:Oh , at this time of year , when icy surfaces can be a problem , worth mentioning that it can be beneficial in an automatic to slip into neutral when coming up to a junction : you then don’t have the back wheels pushing the car on while the fronts are trying to stop it with limited grip - makes a huge difference , especially if downhill towards the mouth of a junction on snow or ice .

Not a problem I have with FWD.
Mike Roberts

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Uh-Oh . . . Trouble in the stable :)

Postby Strangely Brown » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:59 am

GTR1400MAN wrote:Good luck doing 3 stage braking in a modern dual clutch car! ;)


What? :confused:

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Uh-Oh . . . Trouble in the stable :)

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:37 am

Strangely Brown wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote:Good luck doing 3 stage braking in a modern dual clutch car! ;)


What? :confused:

I explained at the top of the previous page of comments.
Mike Roberts

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Re: Uh-Oh . . . Trouble in the stable :)

Postby IcedKiwi » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:03 am

I guess the difference between a standard auto and a DCT is that the auto never disengages drive and hence you have a consistant pull to work against/compensate for with your braking. On a DCT it will knock it into neutral as you slow to a halt, but then when you ease off it re-engages drive against which creates an inconsistent pull and makes it tricky to compensate for.

The Clio is probably a dry clutch DCT which builds up heat quicker compared to a wet clutch and hence maybe uses a different control strategy to minimise slipping compared to others which do maintain drive for longer when coming to a stop.

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Uh-Oh . . . Trouble in the stable :)

Postby Strangely Brown » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:22 am

GTR1400MAN wrote:
Strangely Brown wrote:
GTR1400MAN wrote:Good luck doing 3 stage braking in a modern dual clutch car! ;)


What? :confused:

I explained at the top of the previous page of comments.


Yes, but it is still three stage braking. Just because the final stop is trickier to control does not mean that you cannot do it. The point is that, although the precise technique may be refined depending on the car being driven, the concept is the same. Rub, Condense, Release. Feel, Firm, Feather... or whatever your preferred phrase happens to be.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Uh-Oh . . . Trouble in the stable :)

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:57 am

Agreed. It is 4 stage, with reapplying just at the end of the feathering as you come to a stop.

IcedKiwi - My DCT doesn't disengage until you are stationary with you foot firmly on the brake pedal. With a feathered pedal it continues to pull, slipping the clutch. As you say mine has dry clutches so I try to avoid using creep in queues as much as possible, and annoy cars behind by doing little bunny hops of movement as the queue progresses. Having said that at about 5-6 mph the clutch is fully released (engaged? - depends how you use these terms ... always causes confusion on forums) so there is no slipping. There's a big warning in the manual about avoiding creep mode on hills.
Mike Roberts

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Strangely Brown
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Re: Uh-Oh . . . Trouble in the stable :)

Postby Strangely Brown » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:10 am

GTR1400MAN wrote:[...] mine has dry clutches so I try to avoid using creep in queues as much as possible, and annoy cars behind by doing little bunny hops of movement as the queue progresses. Having said that at about 5-6 mph the clutch is fully released (engaged? - depends how you use these terms ... always causes confusion on forums) so there is no slipping. There's a big warning in the manual about avoiding creep mode on hills.


Indeed. Depressing the clutch pedal is used to "push the clutch OUT". When you want to move, you release the pedal to "let the clutch IN". It is something that, on the face of it and without understanding the mechanics, always confuses people.

Presumably, if you are in heavy traffic, you can still leave sufficient gap in front whereby you can just sit with feet off everything and creep along quite happily without any clutch slip?

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: Uh-Oh . . . Trouble in the stable :)

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:29 am

Strangely Brown wrote:Presumably, if you are in heavy traffic, you can still leave sufficient gap in front whereby you can just sit with feet off everything and creep along quite happily without any clutch slip?

No, I don't think so! :o There's no light/indication of where the tipping point of clutch slip is, but it feels around 5-6mph (which requires application of the throttle). Feet off it feels/sounds like it is slipping in creep mode. Trying to get any info from anyone at Renault about how it actually works and what happens when you apply the handbrake has been impossible.
Mike Roberts

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Re: Uh-Oh . . . Trouble in the stable :)

Postby IcedKiwi » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:13 am

Lock it in first. Drive up to ~3000rpm. See what the roads speed is then calculate what the ratio of engine:road speed.
Should be able to work out what road speed should be at idle with no slip, or see when that ratio changes and therefore the clutch must be slipping.
But then it's probably all such small numbers that it's lost in the rounding, but hopefully give you an idea.

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Re: Uh-Oh . . . Trouble in the stable :)

Postby GTR1400MAN » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:15 am

Good idea. I'll give it a try and report back.
Mike Roberts


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