MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE

Anything that doesn't fit elsewhere - doesn't have to be AD related.
fungus
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MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE

Postby fungus » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:07 pm

Yesterday, whilst out on a lesson with my wifes deputy manage on the B3078 Wimborne Minster/Cranborne road we caught up with a cyclist who was traveling at a reasonable speed. Looking for an opportunity to overtake we decided that there was not enough distance to pass safely, so we hung back. We had three cars behind, the first of which was a reasonable following distance behind. About half a mile farther on an opportunity presented itself off a right hand bend. Road ahead was checked for entrances and condition of the road surface and a decision was made to go. A signal was not necessary bcauase the follwing cars had not rounded the bend. So we pulled out giving the cyclist a good passing clearance, checked the interior mirror and pulled back in when clear and continued on our way.

A couple of miles on we pulled into a lay-by to do some theory. After a few minutes the cyclist that we had passed pulled in shouting MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE at us. Enquiring what his problem was, he screamed at me that I was teaching him wrong. And why is that? I enquired. You didn't signal. It's law. It's in the Highway Code MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE. I tried to explain that a signal is considered and in this instance it was not needed as the following vehicles would not benefit and moving out would make our intention obvious, to which he said that he would benifit from a signal, to which I replied that he had a signal, our position, which was off side when he looked round so what good would a right signal do. You must use your indicator, it's law, it's in the Highway Code.

He would not accept that signals are considered, and that they can be given by any means other than by direction indicators, hand signals, or brake lights. He was in the military and had to take a test once a year for the vehicles that he drove. At this point I'd had enough, and as he'd been carrying on about me giving incorrect instruction, and that driving instructors basically didn't know what they were doing, rightly or wrongly I retaliated and basically informed him that from what I'd been told about military driver training, it was stuck in the past, and that his behaviour typified someone who screams orders and never likes to be challenged. I also told him to change places with me and teach my pupil as he was obviously beter qualified to do it than I was. To which he replied that he didn't have time, and went on his way.

I appologised to my pupil who said that he had felt like getting out and having a go at the cyclist. We agreed that perhaps that was not the best thing to do, and that this just shows how something so petty could escalate into something more serious. I have to admit to losing my temper though, which is something I have had to battle with all my life.

Nigel.

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GTR1400MAN
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Re: MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE

Postby GTR1400MAN » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:56 pm

What benefit would there be to a cyclist you are overtaking of a signal? I don't get it.

I rarely signal to overtake unless there is a vehicle behind looking like it may want to take both of us.
Mike Roberts

fungus
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Re: MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE

Postby fungus » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:36 am

That echos my sentiments exactly.

Nigel.

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akirk
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Re: MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE

Postby akirk » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:13 am

indicating / signalling intention can both occur without an indicator...
typical response from someone not very intelligent who takes comfort from what they know, doesn't know or understand the full picture, and expects the world to conform to their narrow view - not worth worrying about it... I would have laughed and suggested they actually read the HC!
alasdair

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jont-
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Re: MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE

Postby jont- » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:37 am

Should have told him next time you'll signal and then just barge past without waiting for a safe opportunity. You've signalled, he should get out the way ;)

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superplum
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Re: MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE

Postby superplum » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:05 am

Did the cyclist have a bell to warn others of his presence? Was use of the horn considered from a sensible distance beforehand?

martine
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Re: MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE

Postby martine » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:46 pm

Sounds like an arrogant prat to me..."I'm in the military, my driving assessor tells me I must signal every time and so therefore you, mere ADI, are wrong'.

My understanding - correct me if I'm wrong - is there is nothing in the HWC saying you must indicate anywhere - but merely you should indicate when another road user will benefit.

I think a sarcastic laugh might have been more appropriate than raising your voice etc. - and probably better for your blood pressure.

The older I get, the easier it is to keep chilled when faced with other road users questionable actions...life's too short...
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer, Group Secretary, Masters (dist), DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)

fungus
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Re: MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE

Postby fungus » Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:39 pm

Martin you are correct, he is an arrogant prat. I think his blood pressure was higher than mine though, he was screaming "You're wrong mate, you're wrong. MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE and jabbing his index finger at me. May be I should have just told him to be quiet or I will call the police.

There is nothing in the Highway Code to say that you must signal. It's advice is similar to Driving the Essential Skills, which is that a signal should,( not must), be given if it would benifit another road user. As far as overtaking is concerned, the Highway Code says to use your mirrors, signal when it is safe etc. It does not say that you MUST signal.

Nigel.

crr003
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Re: MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE

Postby crr003 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:20 pm

fungus wrote:...
A couple of miles on we pulled into a lay-by to do some theory. After a few minutes the cyclist that we had passed pulled in shouting MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE at us. Enquiring what his problem was, he screamed at me that I was teaching him wrong. And why is that? I enquired. You didn't signal. It's law. It's in the Highway Code MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE. I tried to explain that a signal is considered and in this instance it was not needed as the following vehicles would not benefit and moving out would make our intention obvious, to which he said that he would benifit from a signal, to which I replied that he had a signal, our position, which was off side when he looked round so what good would a right signal do. You must use your indicator, it's law, it's in the Highway Code.
...

HC is unclear (as usual) in 163 it says "....., signal when it is safe to do so,.....". Some will take that as gospel and the accompanying picture shows an indication.

Driving the essential skills 8th impression 2009 states:
"Signal - Always give a signal. .........." page 145.

However, leaping forward to 7th impression 2013:
"Signal. Give a signal if it will help.........." page 144.

Not sure what later versions say, but depending on when the bicyclist was taught to drive, there would be a different spin on the importance given to phrases in the books. I think driver training in the military is quite compressed (time) so I would imagine the use of "thou shalt/thou shalt not" would be prevalent.
Certainly no MUST involved and I'm not sure what benefit a flashing light would have been to the bicyclist.

Best not to enter into discussion (easier said than done!) - if he had a camera on his hat you'd be on Youtube! :o

Kats Dad
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Re: MIRROR, SIGNAL, MANOEUVRE

Postby Kats Dad » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:12 pm

And people wonder why i have an albeit tongue-in-check a dislike for cyclists. I have been known to ride a bicycle occasionally and when I do even I consider myself to be a ****.


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