New or Used?

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New or Used?

Postby Silk » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:32 pm

It's time for me to change my car again and although I've always bought new in the past, I'm thinking of going down the used route this time. Mainly because my company have now removed all restrictions on using own car for work. Previously it had to be under a certain age, and include a full maintenance package. Now I can drive anything as long as it's practical.

The problem is, I'm having trouble making the sums add up. As an example, a new Merc C class diesel to a good spec is around 32,000 list price, Drive the deal will do this for around 25,000 assuming I take the dealer finance. A 2 year-old approved used is around 20,000 for the same spec and the finance is around 12% instead of around 6% for new if taken out on a PCP. Once you factor in the fact you end up with a much older car with a pot-luck spec, I'm having trouble understanding why anyone would buy used. The sums just don't add up.

Am I missing something? We're always being told that a new car depreciates so much in the first year that it's a mugs game to buy new.

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Re: New or Used?

Postby AndyP » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:54 pm

According to the media there is a lot of upselling of Finace. The FSA has had loads of complaints.

Merc do incredible deals mainly because of the hidden!! money put in by them.
I looked at an C45 AMG silly money [cheap] on finance however HUGE balloon payment.

I always encourage friends down that route.
Lastly remember you are 'borrowing someone else's money and there has to be a pay back.

My friend bought pre owned! in the end, and instead or NEW for £300 PM and a balloon payment after 3 years. He went for 18 months old £150 a month and owned outright after 3 years.

My latest and last car [Renno megane RS 265 S/S] was the last one in the UK for 4 months it was three weeks old demo 1200 miles. Got 5 K off!!

Thus the phrase You pays your money and takes your choice.

BUT I just played around online for a GOLF R. Loads of nearly new preowned.
Did the CARWOW website and DRIVE THE DEAL Bargains galore and a list of 5 new and 20 preowned demos at silly prices.
It is not WHAT you drive, BUT:-- the WAY that you drive it.
It is not HOW fast you drive, BUT:-- HOW you drive fast.

Cheers Andy

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Re: New or Used?

Postby jont- » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:19 pm

PCP can be cheap if you do 5k miles per year. I think they'll just laugh at you for 50k (of course there are always mileage "correction" services which I'm sure must be rife on ex-PCP cars). Some manufacturers do silly deals - GolfR is a common one, M140 another (a friend found an M140 cheaper than a GT86, despite the apparent difference in the other direction in list price).

I guess manufacturers are juicing the list price, then "discounting" heavily so people think they've got a good deal

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Re: New or Used?

Postby GTR1400MAN » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:13 pm

We got an additional £1000 off a Yaris if we bought it on finance. There was no discount for paying outright. In the end we took the finance and only paid 6 months payments then paid it off. Some one was 'paying' the £1000 or getting back handers. I'm happy at an extra grand off and avoiding 3 years of interest payments.

I hate the bartering when buying new (or secondhand) from a dealer. All I'm interested in is price to change and I don't give a monkey's how they represent that on the invoice. My wife walks away. If it was down to her she'd just pay what it said on the screen!
Last edited by GTR1400MAN on Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New or Used?

Postby angus » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:24 pm

I'd never expect to pay the sticker price on a car from a dealer (new or used), and I've walked away when they've refused to budge on price. I've also walked out when the "salesman" had to check with his boss once too often.....

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Re: New or Used?

Postby akirk » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:42 pm

I have just been through this exercise with my father, he was looking for something 1-2 years old, in most cases he could buy cheaper by takimg the dealer contribution on a new car, then the manufacturer contribution through financing the car, and then paying the finance back from the cash he actually wanted to use! for a petrol manual c-class brand new was the same as a 2 year old car in the system!

leasing can be very good value if you are happy to chase the deal rather than chase the car you want - e.g. the Golf R deals that were around last year...

so why would you buy secondhand with no warranty?

I don't think you would find that buying a few years old makes much sense in many cases, however go a few years older and it can make a lot of sense...

I drive:
- z3
- range rover
- M5
total cost for all three was less than £30k - equivalent price for base spec new cars is over £200k

at that point second hand makes a lot of sense, plus I get simple analogue cars with far less electronics to go wrong


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Re: New or Used?

Postby Triquet » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:26 pm

There doesn't seem to be an easy answer to this.

The Triquet family has three cars in the stable at the moment. I have two Saabs because I like them, they have nice seats and comedy drink holders, and I've been running them since I had to put a pint of 30-grade in to every 4 gallons ... that dates me a bit.

The family barge is a 9-5 Aero Estate which has immense load capacity for wardrobes etc, lots of power (if applied in a straight line). It cost me about £4 K last year but it won't last for ever. The other Saab is an old 9-5 saloon (the red Saab with funny wheels) which cost just under £1K but has needed a bit of fettling, but gets used for site work and ... driving days. :gear: Then there is Mrs T's Yaris which we've had for 7 years and has needed nothing except an annual service and MOT and the occasional tyre. This has been an absolute gem of a car and the running costs are nuts.

Being semi-retired, I can't justify anything remotely new. :car:

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Re: New or Used?

Postby Gareth » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:49 pm

There's an interesting discussion about these kinds of issue on Pistonheads.

I wonder, if a greater proportion of people are buying new on various of these deals, what's going to happen to second-hand prices - if there are fewer buyers then, presumably, prices will fall. Might this in turn mess up the residual value calculations?
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...

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Re: New or Used?

Postby christopherwk » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:08 am

jont- wrote:PCP can be cheap if you do 5k miles per year. I think they'll just laugh at you for 50k (of course there are always mileage "correction" services which I'm sure must be rife on ex-PCP cars).

My car is leased with a 45k/year limit. ;)

They'll probably quote you for higher mileages, but it will probably get to a point where the payments will almost equal to what you pay for HP anyway.

In my situation it's better to lease, the car would always be under warranty - essential for the mileage, and the amount of fuel I spend, cars seem to be getting more efficient as technology improves. Being self-employed, means the entire cost can be offset against tax.

Downside is, depending on the contract, you usually have to take it to a main dealer for servicing (and Mercedes aren't cheap!).

Also found this from BMW, quoting up to 50k/year: ... eet_HR.pdf

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Re: New or Used?

Postby gannet » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:49 am

dealer finance on used cars is always a rip-off - dealer wanted to charge me 10% interest. They seemed quite surprised I'd asked what the APR was...

I took out a personal loan in end - @ 2.9%... and I own the car. This was on a 9 month old car, which new would've been ~30k...

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